 Is magic broken, let's keep it simple |
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 Mar 31 2009, 06:21 AM
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#76
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Old Man of the North  Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,572 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463  |
I thought about the time span some and looked it up after I questioned it (yeah... I know), and in my location, northwest of Edmonton, Alberta, there is a span of over two months in summer and again in winter when a 16 hour span between sunrise and sunset exists. Over a third of the year, total. Huh.
Rush Job on top of it all? Out of where did he pull those dice? |
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Mar 31 2009, 07:19 AM
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#77
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 15-March 09 Member No.: 16,972 |
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 31 2009, 03:21 PM)  I thought about the time span some and looked it up after I questioned it (yeah... I know), and in my location, northwest of Edmonton, Alberta, there is a span of over two months in summer and again in winter when a 16 hour span between sunrise and sunset exists. Over a third of the year, total. Huh. Rush Job on top of it all? Out of where did he pull those dice? Heh, just sparked a funny idea. From Wikipedia "In Svalbard, Norway, the northernmost inhabited region of Europe, there is no sunset from approximately 19 April to 23 August." |
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Mar 31 2009, 02:15 PM
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#78
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
QUOTE (The Mack @ Mar 31 2009, 03:19 AM) Heh, just sparked a funny idea. From Wikipedia "In Svalbard, Norway, the northernmost inhabited region of Europe, there is no sunset from approximately 19 April to 23 August." Force 80 spirit binding, anyone? |
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Mar 31 2009, 03:27 PM
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#79
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 697 Joined: 18-August 07 Member No.: 12,735 |
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 31 2009, 08:15 AM) Force 80 spirit binding, anyone? If you can handle the results of 160 dice rolled for drain with the spirit burning edge to re-roll failures... sure. That would be... about 90P damage... have fun with that. |
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Mar 31 2009, 03:45 PM
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#80
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
I spend a point of edge for a critical success (on the binding). I spend a point of edge for another critical success (on the drain).
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Mar 31 2009, 03:54 PM
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#81
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 697 Joined: 18-August 07 Member No.: 12,735 |
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 31 2009, 10:45 AM) I spend a point of edge for a critical success (on the binding). I spend a point of edge for another critical success (on the drain). Nope. QUOTE ("BBB Pg 75") Automatically achieve a critical success on one action. The character must be capable of carrying out the action—you can’t buy a critical success for something you have no hope of achieving. (Note that you do not refresh a point of Edge for getting a critical success in this case.) If two opposing characters burn Edge in this manner, they cancel each other out. So unless you can roll 160 dice to resist the drain or are in the probability curve to roll 160 successes... you have no hope of achieving it... and thus can't spend edge to make a critical success. |
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Mar 31 2009, 03:57 PM
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#82
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
Phooey
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Mar 31 2009, 04:30 PM
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#83
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,245 Joined: 27-April 07 From: Running the streets of Southeast Virginia Member No.: 11,548 |
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 31 2009, 10:57 AM) Phooey Don't forget to have 2 more points of Edge... 1 for Longshot on Binding 1 for Longshot on Drain Then you should be able to pull that sort of crap off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Mar 31 2009, 04:36 PM
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#84
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 697 Joined: 18-August 07 Member No.: 12,735 |
QUOTE (darthmord @ Mar 31 2009, 11:30 AM) Don't forget to have 2 more points of Edge... 1 for Longshot on Binding 1 for Longshot on Drain Then you should be able to pull that sort of crap off. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Can't longshot unless the dice pool penalty reduces you to 0 normal dice. Then you roll edge... The spirit still can resist. And a Force 80 spirit has 80 edge to do it with. |
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Mar 31 2009, 04:55 PM
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#85
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,328 Joined: 2-April 07 From: The Center of the Universe Member No.: 11,360 |
Also-force 80 spirit is summoned. All the great dragons take notice, ban together and kill it. Then kill summoner....you are not going to sumon something like that and not attract attention.
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Mar 31 2009, 05:05 PM
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#86
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 |
QUOTE (Warlordtheft @ Mar 31 2009, 12:55 PM) Also-force 80 spirit is summoned. All the great dragons take notice, ban together and kill it. Then kill summoner....you are not going to sumon something like that and not attract attention. Oh, I agree. I'm still going to walk up the mage in our game and say, "Hey, how much edge you got? Willing to permanently lose 4* of it to have a bound force 100 spirit? Yes? GM! We're taking a trip to Anchorage." GM, "What? No!" *1 for the summon, 1 for the summon drain. 1 for the binding, 1 for the binding drain. |
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Mar 31 2009, 06:06 PM
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#87
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Target Group: Members Posts: 28 Joined: 27-January 09 Member No.: 16,818 |
QUOTE (JonathanC @ Mar 28 2009, 08:53 PM) The fact that the game is supposed to be where Magic meets Man and Machine, not "Mages are awesome and obviously better than everyone else". Unbalancing the game towards magic causes groups to lean heavy on magic, and as a result the whole theme and feel of the game is lost. If I wanted to play a game about wizards hanging out in grimy cities, I'd be hanging out in a White Wolf forum. then you and your group should rectify that. Again that is where balance is achieved. |
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Mar 31 2009, 07:16 PM
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#88
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,336 Joined: 24-February 08 From: Albuquerque, New Mexico Member No.: 15,706 |
The game defines something having 'no chance of success', or in this case, 'no hope of achieving' as having a 0 dice pool or otherwise unable to take the action.
So, you have no chance of success to resist 100P Drain only if your dice pool <= 0, or are otherwise unable to roll at all. You also have no chance of success to summon a Force 80 spirit unless your Magic >= 40. I would also like to point out that, if you are capable of summoning a Force 80 spirit to begin with, you can theoretically do so with a Summoning pool of 1, Drain pool of 2, & (without any use of Edge), succeed & suffer no drain (although how you reach a Summoning pool of 1 with 40 Magic is unclear...). |
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Mar 31 2009, 07:30 PM
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#89
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 697 Joined: 18-August 07 Member No.: 12,735 |
QUOTE (Muspellsheimr @ Mar 31 2009, 02:16 PM) The game defines something having 'no chance of success', or in this case, 'no hope of achieving' as having a 0 dice pool or otherwise unable to take the action. So, you have no chance of success to resist 100P Drain only if your dice pool <= 0, or are otherwise unable to roll at all. You also have no chance of success to summon a Force 80 spirit unless your Magic >= 40. I would also like to point out that, if you are capable of summoning a Force 80 spirit to begin with, you can theoretically do so with a Summoning pool of 1, Drain pool of 2, & (without any use of Edge), succeed & suffer no drain (although how you reach a Summoning pool of 1 with 40 Magic is unclear...). Well you do have a point there... of course even if you have magic of 40 from being a lvl 34 initiate... the spirit gets 80 dice of edge to play a contest of edge with you... and your edge is capped at 6/7 perhaps as much as 8... you will lose that contest... You: Longshot test to summon (roll 6-7 dice) Spirit: Longshot test to resist summons (roll 80 dice) or You: Burn an edge for a critical success on the summons or binding ritual Spirit: Burn an edge for a critical success to resist. Trust me, a force 80 spirit isn't going to let some mortal boss it around. |
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Mar 31 2009, 07:40 PM
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#90
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
This is even supposing a Force 80 spirit exists....
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Mar 31 2009, 07:46 PM
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#91
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 220 Joined: 15-March 09 Member No.: 16,972 |
All talk of summoning metaplanar gods aside, it's still a valid idea however to summon a powerful spirit in a place with a midnight sun so you can grant yourself enough time to perform the binding.
Now if only there were a way to make other people soak the drain. Maybe the Azzies know... |
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Mar 31 2009, 07:48 PM
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#92
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
HAH!
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Mar 31 2009, 07:49 PM
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#93
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,336 Joined: 24-February 08 From: Albuquerque, New Mexico Member No.: 15,706 |
It's called Sacrificing. Force 80 Blood Spirit. Now that's an idea...
Edit: Yes, I am quite glad they fixed that particular issue in Street Magic. |
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Mar 31 2009, 11:42 PM
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#94
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
QUOTE So unless you can roll 160 dice to resist the drain or are in the probability curve to roll 160 successes... you have no hope of achieving it... and thus can't spend edge to make a critical success. Theoretically, since you can both spend and burn Edge, you can spend Edge for exploding 6's and have no theoretical cap on your successes. So, it's possible, albeit highly improbable, which makes it fair game for burning Edge. Impossible, in this case, is summoning a Force 81 spirit when you only have a magic of 40. Of course, with a magic of 40, I don't think I'd be quibbling over Force 80 spirits... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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Apr 1 2009, 12:37 AM
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#95
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
Here is a Logical Dilemma for you...
So, You Burn a point of Edge to achieve a critical success on the Summoning (Force 80 Spirit, or Force 6 Spirit, makes no difference for the question) and achieve a Critical Success (4 Net over the Opposition) The Spirit Burns a point of Edge to achieve a critical success to resist the Summoning (Spell caster with a Magic Rating 40 or 6, makes no difference for the question) and achieves a Critical Success (4 Net over the Opposition)... I assume at that point that the Sun explodes since you now have a logical impossibility... How do you resolve this hypothetical scenario? Just my Two Cents |
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Apr 1 2009, 12:39 AM
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#96
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (Cain @ Mar 31 2009, 04:42 PM) Theoretically, since you can both spend and burn Edge, you can spend Edge for exploding 6's and have no theoretical cap on your successes. So, it's possible, albeit highly improbable, which makes it fair game for burning Edge. Impossible, in this case, is summoning a Force 81 spirit when you only have a magic of 40. Of course, with a magic of 40, I don't think I'd be quibbling over Force 80 spirits... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) And Agreed... Who needs spirits when you are a grade 35 initiate with a Magic Rating of 41 |
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Apr 1 2009, 12:53 AM
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#97
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Old Man of the North Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 10,572 Joined: 14-August 03 From: Just north of the Centre of the Universe Member No.: 5,463 |
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 31 2009, 05:37 PM) Here is a Logical Dilemma for you... So, You Burn a point of Edge to achieve a critical success on the Summoning (Force 80 Spirit, or Force 6 Spirit, makes no difference for the question) and achieve a Critical Success (4 Net over the Opposition) The Spirit Burns a point of Edge to achieve a critical success to resist the Summoning (Spell caster with a Magic Rating 40 or 6, makes no difference for the question) and achieves a Critical Success (4 Net over the Opposition)... I assume at that point that the Sun explodes since you now have a logical impossibility... How do you resolve this hypothetical scenario? Just my Two Cents This issue came up two or three years ago in an email exchange I had with Rob Boyle. The two burnt Edge points cancel each other out, and the contest goes back to whatever dice the opposing characters have. |
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Apr 1 2009, 12:56 AM
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#98
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Prime Runner Ascendant Group: Members Posts: 17,568 Joined: 26-March 09 From: Aurora, Colorado Member No.: 17,022 |
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 31 2009, 05:53 PM) This issue came up two or three years ago in an email exchange I had with Rob Boyle. The two burnt Edge points cancel each other out, and the contest goes back to whatever dice the opposing characters have. For mechanical purposes, sure... but the logical dilemma is interesting... |
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Apr 1 2009, 12:58 AM
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#99
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,444 Joined: 18-April 08 Member No.: 15,912 |
QUOTE (cryptoknight @ Mar 31 2009, 09:54 AM) Nope. So unless you can roll 160 dice to resist the drain or are in the probability curve to roll 160 successes... you have no hope of achieving it... and thus can't spend edge to make a critical success. I would bet to differ. It is still physically possible, just VERY unlikely. The spirit could roll all 1's. thus you'd simply need 1 hit for it work. So by definition, YES you can. |
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Apr 1 2009, 01:00 AM
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#100
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,444 Joined: 18-April 08 Member No.: 15,912 |
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Mar 31 2009, 06:37 PM) Here is a Logical Dilemma for you... So, You Burn a point of Edge to achieve a critical success on the Summoning (Force 80 Spirit, or Force 6 Spirit, makes no difference for the question) and achieve a Critical Success (4 Net over the Opposition) The Spirit Burns a point of Edge to achieve a critical success to resist the Summoning (Spell caster with a Magic Rating 40 or 6, makes no difference for the question) and achieves a Critical Success (4 Net over the Opposition)... I assume at that point that the Sun explodes since you now have a logical impossibility... How do you resolve this hypothetical scenario? Just my Two Cents I also firmly believe NPC's should NOT be permitted to burn edge. Spend sure, burn, HELL NO!!! |
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