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> How much does it pay?, Guidelines for paying the PCs for Shadowruns
The Evil Mr Robo...
post Mar 23 2009, 05:28 PM
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Been losing my mind trying to find this info. Can't seem to come up with a good system for how much a Shadowrun should pay...Help????
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JTNLANGE
post Mar 23 2009, 05:36 PM
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I think it all depends on the level of play you want. A dirty gritty street level campaign, maybe only a couple thousand nuyen per palyer, a high level power game 20000+ per character.

Trevor L.
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The Evil Mr Robo...
post Mar 23 2009, 05:47 PM
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Thanks. Are there any sort of guidelines/formulas in the books? It seems that this would have a big effect on the game's power level. I'm not sure how to do the math on this one...
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JTNLANGE
post Mar 23 2009, 05:55 PM
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I am at work at the moment so I don't know specifics, but I think in the section near the back it goes over what is the average. Maybe someone can help out on that.

In the end it really is up to you. Once you play a few you will get a feel for what your players are expecting. If you get a chance maybe go to a convention and see what the Gm's are doing there.


Trevor L.


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The Evil Mr Robo...
post Mar 23 2009, 05:59 PM
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Thanks again...
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ornot
post Mar 23 2009, 06:07 PM
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There are innumerable threads about this. It comes up all the time.

If you want canon guidance, look at the SR Missions, available for free on www.shadowrun4.com

They pay around 5k per runner per mission. However, I've been running through the missions, and my players have been quite vocal that they don't feel it is enough to allow them to progress. As an example, if the rigger loses a drone, they are pretty much out of profit, and when you factor in stuff like lifestyle costs, there's not much left over for 'ware or foci or any of that, even after a half dozen or so runs.
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DireRadiant
post Mar 23 2009, 07:20 PM
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More then they need, less then they want.

Now just figure out how much they need, usually the players will tell you how much they want.

Frankly, the level of compensation for runs is entirely dependent on what makes sense for the game you are running, only you and your players can figure that out.

Compensation isn't just Karma and Nuyen, it could be gear looted on a run, or favors earned, or contacts helped.

You have a lot of choice, that's what can make it difficult. It's deliberately done this way to allow you the latitude to play the game that's most fun for you.

On a side note, if you start out a bit stingy, it's easy to ramp it up later, whereas if you give too much to start, it's not as nice to just take stuff away.
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Endroren
post Mar 23 2009, 09:10 PM
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Here is some VERY rough "science" you could apply.

Starting with the our world - note that these are all averages:

QUOTE
US Military Pay: About $100/day ($36,500/year)
Blackwater Pay: About $400/day ($146,000/year)
Median Household Income in the US: About $45,000/year


Based on these numbers, your typical Blackwater Contractor makes about 3x the median US income. If we apply this in Shadowrun terms, we're looking at around 500 nuyen per day. ( (Middle Lifestyle x 12)/365)

Now taking into account that I don't believe your typical Blackwater contractor is expected to partake daily in the type of heavy live fire action your Shadowrunner will, let's say we only REALLY expect our shadworunner to REALLY work 2-3 days a month. Throwing in the fact that the Shadowrunner is usually doing something illegal as well, we throw in some additional pay for the risk.

In the end, it strikes me that a relatively experienced Shadowrun, doing a job with a decent chance of physical injury, that takes about 2-3 days, would make around 15,000-20,000 nuyen.

You can then slam it into a grid:

QUOTE
Job Difficulty Pay (Rookie/Typical/Experienced)
Easy 3000/5000/8000
Simple 5000/10000/12000
Average 10000/15000/20000
Tough 12000/20000/25000
Epic 20000/30000/50000


DISCLAIMER: I pretty much tossed these numbers together on the fly with a few google searches. I imagine you could build a much more accurate scale, taking into account things like reimbursement for expenses, and such - plus there may be errors in my calculations - but I think you could pretty easily build a really nice "What a runner gets paid" system.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 29 2009, 07:35 PM
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If I Remember Correctly, they gave a fairly good estimate of starting compensation in the SR3e Shadowrun Companion (I think it was called)?

Averages for the types of jobs that you could be expected to pursue as a shadowrunner...

Though the above post has some pretty good guidelines that seem to be about where we fall per run, per runner in our group for the various jobs that we undertake...
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Ayeohx
post Mar 29 2009, 10:24 PM
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Pay was always a bit low. I believe 3rd edition had average pay rates. Remember though, it's not the pay that makes you money from a run, it's the stuff you steal while on the job. Back in the days the runners would steal guns from the opposition, data from corp systems, cyberdecks (goldmine!) and anything else that wasn't nailed down. We even had a guy who would take cybered guys and chop them up for parts. The money is there if the runners look for it.
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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post Mar 29 2009, 11:23 PM
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QUOTE (Ayeohx @ Mar 29 2009, 03:24 PM) *
Pay was always a bit low. I believe 3rd edition had average pay rates. Remember though, it's not the pay that makes you money from a run, it's the stuff you steal while on the job. Back in the days the runners would steal guns from the opposition, data from corp systems, cyberdecks (goldmine!) and anything else that wasn't nailed down. We even had a guy who would take cybered guys and chop them up for parts. The money is there if the runners look for it.



Agreed...
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FlakJacket
post Mar 30 2009, 01:24 AM
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I generally tried to run a balance between what they might get realistically if they were doing similar activities nowadays, what made sense in-game and how much they'd need to cover their basic monthly expenses plus a little extra to help them save up/advance themselves at a slow rate.
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DireRadiant
post Mar 30 2009, 02:05 AM
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A IC guideline that may make sense to look at is to look at each PC lifestyle. It would be reasonable to expect the PC would intend to make at least that amount each month. Then it might be reasonable to plan on the team at least making that amount plus extra goodies in a month. e.g. if the Team does two runs a month, then between those two runs I would think between one and two lifestyle worth of payment would work. This I find makes the players really think a bit more about their PC and how the PC lives, and provides a link between the characters lifestyle and what they expect when they make a shadowrun. If they want more pay, then it's for increasing lifestyle or more goodies, which is a traditional motivation.
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Ayeohx
post Mar 30 2009, 05:44 AM
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This may help. I found a website talking about how much bodyguards make IRL. If you think about it, why would street samurai be Shadowrunners instead of bodyguards? It may because its more "fun" but I think pay has something to do with it. And I'm sure some runners do the bodyguard gig, but probably only during slow times.

http://www.bodyguardcareers.com/bodyguard-salary/

Excerpt:

"The rates associated with this type of work vary widely, depending upon many factors:

The Economy
Prior Experience, Skills & Training
Client Profile (Celebrity vs. Dignitary, National vs. International etc.)
Level of Risk/Danger
Political Climate
Amount of Travel Required
Locale & Circumstances of the Detail
Range of Duties for the Position"

All good things to keep in mind when negotiating price. Now we just need a good average figure...
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Angier
post Mar 30 2009, 10:38 AM
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What about this approach? Per Karmapoint earned in a Run, you could give about 2500 Nuyen. This would be x2 this amount if the Run is particularly hard.

That would amount as (5 Karma on average for a run) for about 12500 per Person, 25000 if the run is rather hard. And if so, one could give more karma too (like 7-9) that would amount to ~35000-45000.

If 12500 seem to much there is also the option to exclude individual karma points and karma points for surviving the run etc. This would amount to 2-3 Karma which amount to 5000-7500.
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Fuchs
post Mar 30 2009, 12:18 PM
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Runners should make enough money so they keep doing shadowruns, instead of looking for other ways to earn money.

In my campaign, we dropped money altogether. Runners make "enough" to maintain their lifestyle, and to replace and get new toys (which are done by group consensus).
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Nath
post Mar 30 2009, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (DireRadiant @ Mar 30 2009, 04:05 AM) *
A IC guideline that may make sense to look at is to look at each PC lifestyle. It would be reasonable to expect the PC would intend to make at least that amount each month. Then it might be reasonable to plan on the team at least making that amount plus extra goodies in a month. e.g. if the Team does two runs a month, then between those two runs I would think between one and two lifestyle worth of payment would work. This I find makes the players really think a bit more about their PC and how the PC lives, and provides a link between the characters lifestyle and what they expect when they make a shadowrun. If they want more pay, then it's for increasing lifestyle or more goodies, which is a traditional motivation.

I'd slightly disagree. I'd maybe say it the other way round : Runners should get enough for the lifestyle the GM wants them to live in. How much the runners would intend to make is not the point.

First, because there are enough wanna-be runners around ready to take less, as well as ohers pros who really need the money now, because they're in bigger trouble than the PC are, are just closer to retirement. A runner turning down a job should be a rare event.

Also, runners are criminals for hire, risking their life on every job. Considering their skills, they could enjoy a lot easier life if they just wanted to pay for a middle or even high lifestyle. There's only one point in running : it's pretty damn fast money. A few days of work got you more than a month or more. If runners were the kind of people to have a wife and two children in a suburbs (like your average Blackwater American employee), maybe they'd be careful on how they spent their money. But I can't imagine your average hacker, rigger or street sam counting how much he need to pay the water bill next month before buying their next toy, or simply spending the night in the hottest nightclub around. Not to mention the numerous PC characters addicted to drugs.

For someone risking his life in the shady dealings of the world most important megacorporations, low or middle lifestyle is not satisfying, especially when you're working five days a month and need some entertainment the rest of the time. But they should not afford high lifestyle on a permanent basis either.
On my own, I consider a runner to be living on a high to luxury lifestyle up to a week after getting paid (with champagne, drugs, prostitutes, grand hotels and fine restaurants, new clothes...) and then sparring what remains in a middle to low lifestyle (ie, staying at home watching the trid with a beer) until his fixer calls him.
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cndblank
post Apr 2 2009, 01:09 PM
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I do think the pay has to be worth the risk.

Life is cheap in the Sixth World, but good gear is not.

if I'm a rigger with a 100K in drones and I'm going to be expending 5K in ammo, I had better get enough to cover my ammo, the wear and tear on my drones, and my lifestyle.

I had also better get enough to cover any drone replacement if they are lost on the job.

Since he can't get an insurance policy I figure a rigger would need five to twenty five percent of the replacement cost of the drones each run just to stay in the business.
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Heath Robinson
post Apr 2 2009, 01:51 PM
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The way to cover that kind of thing is to ask the Johnson to cover ammunition expenses. Their response will tell you whether they want the 'run done on the quiet or not. Same kind of thing goes for Drone costs.
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