 Cheap Trick, How to kick ass with watcher spirits |
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 Jan 12 2004, 08:35 PM
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#1
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,362 Joined: 3-October 03 From: Poway, San Diego County, CA, USA Member No.: 5,676  |
I just got an awesome idea. A mage could summon watcher spirits and have them manifest and distract enemies during combat. This would be especcially useful in car chases. Imagine trying to drive with a semitransparent image moving around right in front of your face. This could easily cause a pursuing car to crash.
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Jan 12 2004, 09:36 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
out of curiosity, what temperature are watcher spirits? Are they room temp, ambient, hot, cold? |
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Jan 12 2004, 10:04 PM
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#3
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Illuminate of the New Dawn Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 317 Joined: 9-June 03 From: Seattle 'Plex, UCAS Member No.: 4,700 |
As far as I know they're not any temperature, since they can't actually physically manifest, just appear as a ghost-like image in the real plane. As for on the astral, your guess is as good as mine as to whether temperature even exists there...
Distracting people is cool, but the best is screwing with dual-natured people/critters and spirits. Just sick a whole cloud of watchers on them and and send in one actual combatant. The cloud o' watchers will ensure that the combatant kicks some serious ass. My conjuror does it all the time. |
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Jan 13 2004, 01:36 AM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I second that watchers are great for astral combat, but you don't even need an 'actual combatant'. Take 6 force 3 watchers versus a mage with all mental attributes at 6 (and some combat skill at 6):
6 force 3 watchers. W1: 6TN4 Vs 12TN4 Character gets 3 extra successes and does a serious wound W2: 6TN3 Vs 9TN5 Spirit gets 1 extra success and does 3l W3: 6TN2 Vs 6TN6 Spirit gets 4 extra successes and deals 3S (Light Damage) W4: 6TN2 Vs 6TN8 Spirit gets 5 extra successes and deals 3S (Moderate Damage) W5: 6TN2 Vs 6TN10 Spirit gets 5 extra successes and deals 3S (Moderate Damage) W6: 6TN2 Vs 6TN11 Spirit gets 5 extra successes and deals 3S (Moderate Damage) OK: so the defending character could have split his pool better, and damage is only stun, but that's one combatant taken out (or at-least seriously injured). If you start taking into account karma pool it goes even further against the character as watchers, being spirits, get karma pool 1 + 1/summoning success. Can we say 2 rerolls (or 4 burned for successes) each? |
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Jan 13 2004, 01:44 AM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
Actually watchers are an exception to that rule. They only have 1 karma point, period. |
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Jan 13 2004, 02:08 AM
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#6
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Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
Panzergeist, yes, that's a great idea. Nature spirits, elementals, and astral magicians can all manifest as well to distract shooters, either by their ghostly form or by talking to them.
Prospero, the word you are looking for is Materialize. Watchers can manifest on the physical plane (audible and ghostly-visible), but not materialize. Lilt and Prospero, in our team, we found that the astral-swarm of watchers was very annoying. Because of the effectiveness of the technique you describe, every magician had to conjure <charisma> watchers every time he wanted to astrally project. It greatly lengthened the time to resolve an astral combat, without making the game any better or more enjoyable. While we didn't ban them outright, we made house rules to make such a swarm less effective and our astral combat now goes a lot faster. The mundane people are the happiest ones to have astral combats go faster. |
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Jan 13 2004, 02:15 AM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Bah. I missed that one. Thx. |
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Jan 13 2004, 02:22 AM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,685 Joined: 17-August 02 Member No.: 3,123 |
It's still good to remember. Considering that they're pretty much disposable combatants, they won't hesitate to use that point. The victim, on the other hand, will hesitate to waste a precious karma point to combat a measly watcher.
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Jan 13 2004, 02:26 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 588 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 227 |
Ah yes, the old "horde of astral weenies" vs a single "badass". Yawn.
The way most GM's handle this is, the first attacker (or attacked) "weenie fighter" gets no "friends in melee". After all, nobody else has actually fought yet, right? One on one, he likely gets splatted. Then the next "weenie" doesn't have a "friend in melee", because his first friend is now DEAD. And so on it goes. As long as the lone badass can defeat a single weenie without using any pool, there's really not much for him to worry about. |
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Jan 13 2004, 02:31 AM
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#10
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes, you can kick ass with watchers, but can you look good doing it?
Considering watcher spirits, I doubt it. ~J |
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Jan 13 2004, 02:31 AM
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#11
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
And if the watchers all rush him simultaneously? Ooops, there goes your non-Canon House rule... :D
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Jan 13 2004, 02:57 AM
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#12
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Since the little bastards can manifest, our mage used them to mark enemy combatants so the samurai knew where to lay down fire.
Our GM was a little flexible with how the watchers manifested, so our mage went for the bizarre motif -- one was shaped as a fat lady on a fat pony singing "Flight of the Valkyries". :grinbig: -Siege |
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Jan 13 2004, 03:04 AM
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#13
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Chrome to the Core Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,152 Joined: 14-October 03 From: ::1 Member No.: 5,715 |
Ha! I like.
Reminds me of the description for a task of a watcher in Grimoire 2. It goes on describing summoning, getting the task (Message delivery/retrieval), and the time it takes to get it all done. In the end... "'I found her, boss. She says...gleep!' The spirit's time runs out and it vanishes. Janos is not pleased." That is the official way all watchers go away now. With a hardy "Gleep!" |
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Jan 13 2004, 04:34 AM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
You will notice I took that into account in my example. The force 3 watcher would probably take serious damage but still live. I don't think it's even that non-canon athough there is nothing in the rules saying that you can't attack simultaniously
Rolling 12 dice versus a bog-standard (available at character gen) F3 watcheris on-average gives a serious wound. Adding weapon foci and adept powers helps but it costs a lot to take the number of dice you roll (with minimal pool) up to 14.
[edit]I think your best bet would be a weapon focus with a bit of reach, that should give you a good number of net successes but as I said earlier the watchers could just attack simultaniously[/edit] |
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Jan 13 2004, 04:39 AM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
AFAIK there is no set appearance for watchers. There is one in "Tails You Lose" that looks like a little coin-elemental. You could easily have ones that look like Lost Souls from the Doom series or any other cool-looking critter. |
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Jan 13 2004, 04:56 AM
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#16
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Even if there was, the Watchers could all just hold their actions until such time as they could attack simultaneously as a pack. :) |
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Jan 13 2004, 04:59 AM
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#17
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes, but how would you summon them properly? You'd have to mask your aura to appear like a pain elemental.
Besides, Watchers lack that certain je ne sais quoi. ~J |
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Jan 13 2004, 05:04 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Well, you could look like you were wearing a big rubber pain-elemental suit. On P173 of SR3 it says you can form an image of whatever clothing you like around you.
Yes, but they're useful little buggers.
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Jan 13 2004, 05:07 AM
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#19
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Perhaps, but *sniff* the fashionable mage does not use such methods.
I like the idea of the Pain Elemental suit, though. The distracting swarm idea is one I shall indeed have to use at some point. ~J |
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Jan 13 2004, 05:07 AM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 18-February 03 Member No.: 4,110 |
Thought so. If they aren't any temperature they might not be a visual distraction to anyone with thermo. |
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Jan 13 2004, 05:17 AM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Well: Manifestation is entierly Psychic, thus vehicle sensors and cameras can't see it. It is effectively a psychic visual image (formed in the mind) and, as thermographic vision is still vision, I think it would still affect characters with thermo vision (although not ones piloting via a VCR). Ultrasound vision would still half TN penalties per the standard rules. |
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Jan 13 2004, 05:33 AM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Looking for a definition of friends in melee, it is the number of friends you have within 1m who are fighting the same fight. IE: They all just need to fly 1m from the character and then attack whenever they want to.
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Jan 13 2004, 08:01 AM
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#23
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
the friends in melee rule works on the simple thought that one person haveing more then one person around him that wants to hurt him cant focus on only one of them. the dont need to hurt, only threaten...
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Jan 13 2004, 08:52 AM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 63 Joined: 8-November 03 Member No.: 5,803 |
I have nothing useful to add to this conversation. I just wanted to say I find the phrase 'astral weenie' really amusing. |
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Jan 13 2004, 08:59 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 114 Joined: 9-October 03 Member No.: 5,702 |
A couple of people have already mentioned this, and maybe it's a little off topic, but I'm curious -- what do your watchers look like? My current combat mage has watchers that look like bats with the faces of human infants (ala T.S. Elliot's Wastelands).
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