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> Shadowrun (D&D 4E) Conversion, Don't hit me!
FormerCompanyMan
post Mar 24 2009, 04:33 PM
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I know this might be a controversial thing, especially on the dumpshock forums, but I thought it might be of interest to some of you Shadowrunners out there. Recently, my gaming group has given up on the Forgotten Realms and have decided that the Seattle Metroplex should be our home for the forseeable future. Despite the setting change, we wanted to keep the same rules of D&D4E since everyone in our group knows them well at this point, and they just seem to "work" for our players. So, I went ahead and starting doing the conversion. Below is the link to the site where I've been posting the conversion information for my players and anyone else who might be interested.

http://sr4e.wordpress.com

Please leave some comments. Obviously, it's difficult to properly transition some of the "feeling" of the Shadowrun rules, but it's pretty close and playtesting has revealed it to work surprisingly well.

Thanks chummers!
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cryptoknight
post Mar 24 2009, 04:50 PM
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Hit you? Why would I do that...

That's actually kinda cool...

though I think you should have fewer classes and a larger number of at wills, encounter and daily powers.

The classes would be

Mundane

Magic Using

Technomancer


You'd need build options to make a rigger, hacker, street sam, weapons specialist, etc under mundane.

Shaman, Mage, Mystical Adept and Adept under Magic

rigger Techno, stealth Techno and Blaster Techno under Technomancer

You'd also need a whole lotta at wills, encounters and dailies...

Give characters 4 at wills perhaps instead of 2...

Multiclass feats would be only for Magic Using or Technomancers to tap mundane powers. Mundanes would not be able to multiclass into magic using or technomancer.
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JeffSz
post Mar 24 2009, 04:58 PM
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Ok, my Knee Jerk reaction to D&D4e being married to my beloved SR is to kick you in the face after I'm done retching....

However you've done a pretty damn good job of the conversion, it looks like. It would be interesting to try out, but in my opinion it would be better used for a tabletop miniatures skirmish than an actual role-playing campaign - but that's just my loathing for D&D4e showing through.

Kudos for getting some of your fellow D&D4e'rs to play Shadowrun, regardless of system.
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cryptoknight
post Mar 24 2009, 05:05 PM
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On second thought... perhaps the

Mundane/Magic/Technomancy would be the three core power sources...


Mundane Controller = Rigger
Mundane Leader = Hacker
Mundane Striker = Sniper
Mundane Defender = Street Sam

Technomancer Controller = Techno Rigger
Technomancer Leader = Sprite Master
Technomancer Striker = Stealth Mancer
Technomancer Defender = Blaster mancer

Magic Controller = Mage
Magic Leader = Shaman
Magic Striker = Adept
Magic Defender = Spirit Summoner

Allow them to mix and match fairly freely within their power source but need to burn feats to MC into another power source.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 24 2009, 05:05 PM
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Why not just use the D20 Modern rules and use the SR fluff for your campaign. Saves having to convert everything over to D&D 4e.
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Maelstrome
post Mar 24 2009, 05:11 PM
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ive seen other shadowrun conversions like this. this one though actually seems worth playing though. how far do you plan on taking this? are you going to convert augmentations,street magic,and so on?
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Zurai
post Mar 24 2009, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 24 2009, 12:05 PM) *
Why not just use the D20 Modern rules and use the SR fluff for your campaign. Saves having to convert everything over to D&D 4e.


That's answered within the first two or three sentences of the first post.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 24 2009, 06:19 PM
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QUOTE (Zurai @ Mar 24 2009, 11:25 AM) *
That's answered within the first two or three sentences of the first post.


I'm sure that Hasbro will be bringing out a D20 Modern 4e sometime soon. You could also try to find a 3.5e to 4e conversion and convert the gun rules from D20 Modern to 4e. It may save you some time and effort.
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ludomastro
post Mar 24 2009, 06:34 PM
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Flagged for home reading. Comments will follow.
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FormerCompanyMan
post Mar 24 2009, 06:41 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys. I'm glad everyone likes it so far. Even a self-proclaimed 4E-hater sees some value in it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
I don't want to leave a huge post, so I'll just try to sum up replies.

I think the more classes the better. Even though specific classes means you might have to shoe-horn your personal idea for your character into one of a handful of catagories, it means the classes themselves can have more unique qualities and abilities (or powers). Also, this conversion is based off of our groups' collective perception of the Shadowrun world, which is mostly an amalgamation of the 2nd and 3rd Edition Shadowrun books. We never really got into Technomancers or the "deckerless world" of the new 4th Edition Shadowrun.

As for more At-wills and mixing and matching powers, I think that will just lead to unbalance and too many power cards to think about. Balance is a concern of mine since the 4E system is so hard-coded. I'm unfortunately cramming the lovely looseness of Shadowrun into a more rigid, heavily defined D&D. But like I said, the D&D4e system is easiest for my particular group of players, as well as the fact that it makes the GM's job much easier.

I plan to take this project as far as my enthusiam carries it. If my saturday night game succeeds with SR4E, my enthusiam level will stay pretty high for a while. Also, if I keep getting positive comments and have people to discuss the conversion with online, I'll probably take it pretty far. At the moment, I'm focusing on getting the game playable at 1st level. We have six people in our group, plus the GM, so I want to make sure there are at least six classes. At the moment, I'm planning on adding additional three for a total of nine classes. I don't like odd numbers, so I'll likely add some more later.

As far as augmentations, I'm mulling over how to handle this. Right now, it looks like Augmentations will work much like Magical Items in D&D. Shadowrunners don't find as much "treasure" as D&D heroes do, but they do get paid well for successful missions. Rather then the DM handing out a +1 Longsword, the Runners might run across a cache of nuyen, or get a "good job" bonus from Mr. Johnson. So the Runners can then purchase some wiz tech in the form of gadgets, cyberware, bioware, modified weaponry, and modified armor. Any suggestions that don't involve completely rewriting the rules of D&D4E are welcome.
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Catsnightmare
post Mar 24 2009, 06:47 PM
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Hit you?

I wanna shoot you! With a Panther Cannon!

It's as if SR4 itself wasn't already horrid enough to make Cthulhu vomit. You make it worse by converting it do D&D 4th edition.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 24 2009, 08:20 PM
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Is there a way to play D&D4e without classes. That way you could get around having to pidgin hole each player (one of the things that I think makes SR great). Maybe just have one class (Shadowrunner) and have is as customizable as the warrior in 3.5 (I don't know 4e, I lost interest in D&D around 3.5).
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imperialus
post Mar 24 2009, 08:37 PM
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Look pretty neat. I'm not sure you'll turn a decker into a striker but I'm interested to see what you come up with.

I like your idea for augmentations replacing magic items. You could do the same thing with Foci and Fetishes for the awakened classes. Maybe even allow a multiclass feat like cybermage that lets an awakened character make use of both item types.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 24 2009, 08:47 PM
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One thing you may want to look into for Magic is overcasting as seen in the Wheel of Time D20 game (it shouldn't be hard to modify for 4e). In the WOT D20 you had your set spells per day but you could do a save through against Willpower (I think) to see if you can cast a spell after your all tapped out (of course if you failed you took stun damage (ie drain)). I remember the Shadowrun D20 project used a similar rule to handle magic.
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Browncoatone
post Mar 24 2009, 09:25 PM
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Well... Somebody had to do it.
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cryptoknight
post Mar 24 2009, 09:26 PM
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QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ Mar 24 2009, 03:47 PM) *
One thing you may want to look into for Magic is overcasting as seen in the Wheel of Time D20 game (it shouldn't be hard to modify for 4e). In the WOT D20 you had your set spells per day but you could do a save through against Willpower (I think) to see if you can cast a spell after your all tapped out (of course if you failed you took stun damage (ie drain)). I remember the Shadowrun D20 project used a similar rule to handle magic.



Well doing D&D 4E style... you have at wills and encounters that become available frequently. The dailies would have to be amazing things though.
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Professeur
post Mar 24 2009, 09:46 PM
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One of my friends in my gaming group actually did the opposite, adapting the SR4 rules to a medieval fantasy-type setting. If anybody cares, I'll try to find the latest version and post it on the forums.
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Ayeohx
post Mar 24 2009, 10:01 PM
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The elitest jerk in me screams "blasphemy!" but really, it sounds like a fun project; good luck man. And your site looks sharp.

Why not just do a rule conversion though? I noticed that you had dragonborn and tieflings in there. If you're really wanting to do Shadowrun shouldn't you use the standard metahumans? Changing the metahumans changes the history, and if you do that you're basically just running a generic cyberpunk-with-magic game.

Also, a cyberpunk game was made for D&D 3rd edition. It may have some useful ideas for you.
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FormerCompanyMan
post Mar 24 2009, 10:35 PM
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I appreciate the interest in the project guys. Please continue to leave comments, even if it's similar to the guy who wants to shoot me with a Panther Cannon. Again I'll try to be concise with my replies.

There is probably a way to play "classless 4E", but like I said, I'm not really interesting in re-writing the 4E rules. I want to stick as closely to the existing rules as possible to make sure it stays balanced and useable. But anyone is welcome to expand on what I have done, or of course go and do their own thing.

I like the "overcasting" idea, though it will be applied to non-casters as well since all the classes use the same mechanisms. I'll make a new feat that allows you to spend an action point to regain the use of one of your Daily powers.

As for turning a Decker into a Striker, I actually think that's the closest approximation. Of course, the Decker class in question would not your traditional "pansy" decker, he'd be a decker who also happens to be an adept combatant. I don't think it's much of a stretch, since it's in the best interest of the team to bring along a decker who can defend himself and not just get geeked when the drek hits the fan. That's IMHO of course.

Foci and Fetishes are basically going to become new types of Implements, working the same way a Holy Symbol, Orb, Staff, Wand, or Rod works.

About putting Dragonborn and Tieflings on the race list, like the explanation says, you don't have to use them if you don't want to. If you feel that their inclusion somehow detracts from whatever "Shadowrun" means to you, ignore them. The reason I put them up is because I personally don't think it's far-fetched to imagine their existance in Shadowrun, it doesn't hurt to have them up there for people who like the idea, and because a large number of potential adopters are coming from D&D and might enjoy playing the race they play in D&D.

The 3rd Edition Cyberpunk game I think you're talking about is OGL Cyberpunk, which I wasn't a big fan of, but that might just be due to the fact that I didn't like the D20 rules so much.
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the_real_elwood
post Mar 24 2009, 11:06 PM
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Now admittedly, I have no experience with D&D 4E (the groups I played with stopped at 3E/3.5E, but the increasing of hit points with class levels/hit dice is kind of at odds with the shadowrun feel. In shadowrun, a low-karma character that's sufficiently lucky and with a large enough gun could theoretically kill a prime runner. The D&D mechanic isn't particularly conducive to that possibility.
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HappyDaze
post Mar 24 2009, 11:17 PM
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QUOTE
at odds with the shadowrun feel

That may be a Shadowrun feel, but it's certainly not the only one. The D&D4E mechanics might actually be better for replicating the action from some of the more over-the-top SR novels. I think that trying them with the SR4 rules will likely just get you a sad string of TPKs...
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the_real_elwood
post Mar 25 2009, 12:16 AM
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QUOTE (HappyDaze @ Mar 24 2009, 06:17 PM) *
That may be a Shadowrun feel, but it's certainly not the only one. The D&D4E mechanics might actually be better for replicating the action from some of the more over-the-top SR novels. I think that trying them with the SR4 rules will likely just get you a sad string of TPKs...


No, you're definitely right. The rules in the game aren't really suited for recreating the events of the novels (unless your GM is cool with letting you start a game with an 800 point build). If the exploits of the group I played SR with were made into a novel, it'd mostly be a tale of bumbling idiots, with the occasional firefight.

But back on topic, I don't dislike the idea of porting Shadowrun over to the D&D rules, though I'm not such a fan of the D&D 4E rules myself. As long the group enjoys it, then what's the harm.
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Aristotle
post Mar 25 2009, 12:22 AM
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Looks like a fun project to me too!

I've been working on a "near future cyberpunk" port of 4e myself. I went sort of the opposite direction I think with a single "martial" class for everyone and "powers" divided into trees based on the weapon/tech they rely on and all other power sources only available through multiclassing. I'm using the flat level based bonus to hit, damage, and defenses to do away with the need for neck, armor, and weapon slots... and then using the idea leveled magic items (sans ehancement bonuses) to represent weapons of different power levels (i.e. a standard pistol is a level 1 item while a panther assault canon might be a level 20 one).

Why do all that when I could pretty quickly convert my setting/races to Shadowrun and be done with it? Because I like to tinker. It's been slow going, but fun.
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ludomastro
post Mar 25 2009, 05:43 AM
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Comments:
Interesting ....

I still GM d20 for my wife and some friends but none of us can stand 4E. So if I put my bias to one side (this is tough) then it looks like it might work.

One nitpick - there are NO half-anything in SR. So, I had to deduct points for the half-elf racial option.
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KCKitsune
post Mar 25 2009, 08:16 AM
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Is there a way to get all of these rules in a PDF? It would make it easier to read the rules that you laid out.

I was thinking of converting SR4 into D&D 3.5 using the BESM d20 rules. I just have not had the time lately.
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