Shadowrun MMO, Would you dig it? Options

[CanadianWolverin...]

Oh, here, i forgout about this one:
http://awakenedmmo.org/

Er, how do I not sound mean about those screen shots and preview video... I understand that is a work in progress but it doesn't inspire one with confidence. Are they officially licensed or is that like a fan project? If it is a fan project rather than a commercial venture, I can forgive it of a lot, like I do with mods for PC games ... unless it likes to crash to desktop or freeze up a lot. I loved playing Natural Selection mod for Half-Life and am very curious to see how Unknown Worlds does with its commercial venture of that property with Natural Selection 2, http://www.naturalselection2.com/, now that has a nice promo/preview video. Sven Coop, that was a nice mod too, had a number of maps that make me think of Shadowrun too, though combat heavy obviously. There was even this mod for Half-Life 2 that screams Shadowrun, even had a "matrix", what was it called again ... oh, here it is, Dystopia : http://www.dystopia-game.com/

[Stahlseele]

Nope, that's Fanstuff.
And yeah, they don't look good.
6WG had a playable Pre Alpha.

[Cheops]

Well given the "success" of MS's Shadowrun online FPS, and the fact that it is FASA/MS (not sure which one anymore) that own the rights to all digital versions of the game I don't think we'll see one anytime soon. Also, Matrix Online was generally not a success. It peaked at about 50K active subscriptions and declined to 30K by essentially the end of its life. (source: http://www.mmogchart.com). If there is any chance of SR having an MMORPG you'd need to look a the success of the upcoming "All Points Bulletin" to see how that does. They'll have decently similar markets.

[Stahlseele]

Actually, right now, the electronic Rights are at Smith and tinker, as far as i remember.

[CanadianWolverin...]

Well given the "success" of MS's Shadowrun online FPS, and the fact that it is FASA/MS (not sure which one anymore) that own the rights to all digital versions of the game I don't think we'll see one anytime soon. Also, Matrix Online was generally not a success. It peaked at about 50K active subscriptions and declined to 30K by essentially the end of its life. (source: http://www.mmogchart.com). If there is any chance of SR having an MMORPG you'd need to look a the success of the upcoming "All Points Bulletin" to see how that does. They'll have decently similar markets.

The reason I brought up some of those MMOs is at least partly because they are no longer around. Not all of their lack of success was due to gameplay or setting. There are a lot of intellectual properties IMHO that suffer from lack of support on the marketing, continued content support beyond launch, and customer service.

Oh, and it would be ideal with a SR4 MMO was done with the payment model for Guild Wars, but the monthly subscription model seems more standard for that part of the gaming industry, unfortunately.

[Stahlseele]

to hell with that Noise.
I would probably Pay even if i was not playing the SR MMO just to keep it going . . .

[CanadianWolverin...]

to hell with that Noise.
I would probably Pay even if i was not playing the SR MMO just to keep it going . . .

Oh, that's not what I meant, its just that it is possible that having a particular payment plan can open you up to a larger casual market who can justify a one time expenditure but not necissarily an ongoing bill in addition to their ISP tele-cable / electrical / infrastructure bill. It is not usually discussed with regards to games but having lower system requirements will open up your number of possible customers as well, especially internationally, though your screen shots / promo videos aren't going to impress the smaller niche market who want to run your game at max settings on their $3000+ super computer gaming rig. To me buying Guild Wars and its expansions would be a bit like buying the Core Rule and Expansion Flavour books of a Pen & Paper game.

Games like WoW like to brag about their large numbers of subscriptions, but what they are less honest about is that they aren't showing the numbers by geographical location (aka what kind of ping a player can get to the server) and they aren't exactly disclosing how many of those numbers are now expired subscriptions (aka the player no longer plays [pays] the game but their character(s) are saved for a while). Games with fewer servers placed around the world are just going to have a smaller total subscription numbers, but they also have to deal with fewer logistical costs in maintaining those servers around the world. WoW China plays alot differently than WoW West Coast USA or WoW East Coast USA, that sort of thing *shrug*

[Stahlseele]

To me buying Guild Wars and its expansions would be a bit like buying the Core Rule and Expansion Flavour books of a Pen & Paper game.

That's got to be the single most exact analog i have heard about that as of yet O.o

Also, i am one of those 3000+$ Computer-People *g*

[Tanegar]

Mark me down in the "single-player open-world" column. I have no faith whatsoever in the ability of any developer to make an MMO (or any publisher to allow the creation of an MMO) that doesn't degenerate into a grind. A new Shadowrun video game would be awesome, but only in certain formats.

[Critias]

I wouldn't mind a "single player open world plus co-op capability," myself. That way you can team up with your buddies and go do jobs, but you don't have to deal with every hyperactive thirteen year old and jobless thirty-something with nothing better to do but grind all day...

[Cheops]

I wouldn't mind a "single player open world plus co-op capability," myself. That way you can team up with your buddies and go do jobs, but you don't have to deal with every hyperactive thirteen year old and jobless thirty-something with nothing better to do but grind all day...

Meh, you don't have to do this in most MMOs now anyway. I've gone for weeks on WoW without interacting with other people.

@CW: Actually WoW does have that many ACTIVE subscribers. It is something of a "fluke" in MMOs -- most of the others aren't looking to be "WoW-killers." That link I posted counts active subscriptions (ie. people paying monthly) not just people who bought the box. You are correct in stating that they don't show the geographical base for the games. Most of the MMO industry is focused on Asia since that market is nearly limitless for MMOs. WoW is estimated to have about 4-6 million of their players in China alone. So speaking in terms of North America/Europe it isn't nearly as massive (since Korea is also a huge chunk of the market).

A Shadowrun MMO could probably eke along at 30,000 active subscribers but that is such a low amount that no one probably wants to bother. If you can get to around 300,000 you are pretty successful.

[Meatbag]

An MMO? Hell no! I actually like Shadowrun, see?

(Local Nodes) JasonMFNBourne is broadcasting : LF lvl40 PhysAd/MysAd 4 BC/RenArc run.

(Jackpoint) CharginMuhLaz0r says: 400 DPS melee SS LFT.

(Jackpoint) AnonymousLegion says: lol melee sammy n00b lol.

Picture that, forever, while Lone Star beat cops seemingly shoot at you for existing - because everybody uses wildly illegal weaponry to save on Palming and fake credentials.

Now, a Shadowrun game based on the Jagged Alliance series? Yes, absolutely.

[The Jake]

An MMO? Hell no! I actually like Shadowrun, see?

(Local Nodes) JasonMFNBourne is broadcasting : LF lvl40 PhysAd/MysAd 4 BC/RenArc run.

(Jackpoint) CharginMuhLaz0r says: 400 DPS melee SS LFT.

(Jackpoint) AnonymousLegion says: lol melee sammy n00b lol.

Picture that, forever, while Lone Star beat cops seemingly shoot at you for existing - because everybody uses wildly illegal weaponry to save on Palming and fake credentials.

Now, a Shadowrun game based on the Jagged Alliance series? Yes, absolutely.

I can see it now... Redmond Barrens becomes the new "Barrens". Barrens Chat under the same name even. Hillarious!

Back to the topic at hand -
I'm definitely not for an MMO. I am strictly a casual gamer. MMOs and casual gaming don't mix (and yes I've tried, so it is an informed opinion).

- J.

[Ravor]

As a disclaimer, I did not actually read the thread, but Meatbag pretty much sums up my feelings on the subject, with the following addition, a MMO that stayed true to Shadowrun wouldn't play very well as you could not have any classes, levels, ect AND there is no way in hell that you could appease both the Pink Mohawks and the Ice Cold Pros.

*EDIT*

OK, read the thread, and my opinion has not changed.

[Cheops]

Now, a Shadowrun game based on the Jagged Alliance series? Yes, absolutely.

QFT. Unfortunately the turn-based games are largely going the way of the dodo. Not sure you want to develop a niche game for a niche game. It would be pointless to make an SR video game if it isn't going to pull new blood in.


Edit: Should also remind people that there is likely a new Syndicate game on the way so the success of that would give us a clue as to whether anyone else will give SR another try.

[Tanegar]

Meh, you don't have to do this in most MMOs now anyway. I've gone for weeks on WoW without interacting with other people.

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of playing an MMO to begin with?

[Zaranthan]

Only in spirit. WoW is pretty fun to explore alone.

[Cheops]

Doesn't that defeat the purpose of playing an MMO to begin with?

Yeah. I drew a lot of flak on the Warhammer Online boards for claiming that WAR was more successful than WoW because I actually want to play WAR with other people. Whereas in WoW I wish they'd fuck off and die. Nothing more frustrating than getting to the murderplace and finding 4 other people farming the same creature you are.

[crash2029]

An MMO? Hell no! I actually like Shadowrun, see?

(Local Nodes) JasonMFNBourne is broadcasting : LF lvl40 PhysAd/MysAd 4 BC/RenArc run.

(Jackpoint) CharginMuhLaz0r says: 400 DPS melee SS LFT.

(Jackpoint) AnonymousLegion says: lol melee sammy n00b lol.

Picture that, forever, while Lone Star beat cops seemingly shoot at you for existing - because everybody uses wildly illegal weaponry to save on Palming and fake credentials.

Now, a Shadowrun game based on the Jagged Alliance series? Yes, absolutely.

I play WoW occasionally and I have no idea what the hell you just said.

I remember the first time I tried to play an online game, it was rainbow six. I got onto a server thing, and then the others in the room/server/whatever finished their mission/map/whatever and decided to load up something I had never heard of. I politely asked to what they were refering. One of them responded "are u a n00b?" I responded "What is a 'n00b'?" The next thing I knew I had been ejected from the server. It was years before I tried anything like that again. I just don't hold truck with this gol-durn 'l337' stuff.

[Tanegar]

I play WoW occasionally and I have no idea what the hell you just said.

I remember the first time I tried to play an online game, it was rainbow six. I got onto a server thing, and then the others in the room/server/whatever finished their mission/map/whatever and decided to load up something I had never heard of. I politely asked to what they were refering. One of them responded "are u a n00b?" I responded "What is a 'n00b'?" The next thing I knew I had been ejected from the server. It was years before I tried anything like that again. I just don't hold truck with this gol-durn 'l337' stuff.

Ouch. Yes, many people in online games are douchebags, and on behalf of all sane people, I apologize that your first experience sucked so badly.

[Generico]

Shadowrun will never truly work as a video game for two reasons:
Illusion spells
Manipulation spells.

A GM can cope with all the crazy inventive use of open ended powers. A computer can't.
While it is true that rougelike games are extremely deep in terms of what you can do, it's still not human grade.

I know doing crazy shit with magic is where I derive a lot of my fun in SR, reducing spells to a list of pre-recorded effects would kill that.

[Meatbag]

I play WoW occasionally and I have no idea what the hell you just said.

Slotting in I337 Linguasoft!

1: Looking for level 40 Physical/Mystic Adept for Bug City/Renraku Arcology run.

2: 400 damage-per-second melee Street Samurai looking for team.

3: Don't you know that melee street samurai are inefficient? You must be new.

This kind've bullshit is everywhere, and if you've managed to avoid it, I consider you very lucky.

[Stahlseele]

Heck, i don't even PLAY any MMO's and i STILL understood it . . how sad is that? <.<

[GreyBrother]

didn't even bother to try understanding it (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
Not the WoW i play. I tend to stick to RP servers

[Kev]

I think that Shadowrun is far too cinematic, in my mind, to ever be made into a MMORPG. A multiplayer game, sure, but not a MMO.

My perfect Shadowrun game would probably look closer to a mixture of Fallout and Mass Effect than anything. Multiplayer elements would allow you to join up with others and form an actual Shadowrun team. Possible strong modding communities or actual GM tools a la NWN would make for that P&P feel.

I just don't personally think that SR can be accurately translated to a MMO setting simply because it is a singular entity; it's not about killing, leveling up, or getting UBERGEAR. It's abou subtlety, subterfuge, cyberpunk, and... okay, yeah, trolls with miniguns. But still.