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> Voodoo Face, Are these two criteria fighting each other?
Ten Suns
post Mar 27 2009, 12:27 AM
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Hi all,

After the recent departure of Mercedes Westwind, our team's exotic dancer-turned-runner, our LA-based team is without a face and therefore BONED. Our party's infiltrator, who isn't digging on his character anyway, has agreed to retire his current guy and run a character that's at least partially a face. His only stipulation: he wants to play a voodoo character -- not just a voodoo adherent, but a character that has access to the possession power. Let me just say now that this guy is not looking to twink. I think he's genuinely looking forward to the prospect of roleplaying some loa servants, Count Zero-style.

So I want to help him build a functional character, but I've got to admit I'm pretty much lost, having never run a possession character. How would you guys approach this? Mystic Adepts are OK, straight magicians are OK, aspected summoners are OK, mixed 'ware and magic are OK -- he just wants to summon, have a good time, be a cool guy, and be survivable in combat, even if he doesn't contribute much to the fight.

EDIT: sr4, BTW. Also, I tried searching, to no avail.
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Caadium
post Mar 27 2009, 01:38 AM
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If I understand this correctly, he wants to be a Conjuring Aspected magician of the Voodoo tradition? If so, use the 5 point negative quality in Street Magic to reflect this. This quality gives them a fairly large negative to magical tests that are not from the conjuring skill group.

Or, are you just asking about the use of Voodoo and possession? If that is what you are worried about remember a few things.

1. A spirit that possesses a living thing, like a PC, takes control of it. The personality of the PC is suppressed, and the body/spirit combo work using the drives, personality, and whims of the spirit; limited by the controls the magician has over it via favors owed. Although Street Magic doesn't say anything along these lines, in my games possessing spirits enjoy the possession process about as much as materialization spirits enjoy being materialized; not at all really. My reasoning for this is the following quote (SR4 BBB, Pg 176 I don't know how to get the quote tags to show that, sorry):

QUOTE
Spirits dislike taking physical form because it makes them vulnerable to physical attacks.


Players might think twice about using possession as a cheap and easy way to quickly spike your physical stats when you intercede because the controlling spirit has different goals than the current "plan of action" by the PCs. Conversely, if they want to force the spirit to comply they can quickly burn through favors, and depending on how they treat their spirits find themselves quickly dealing with spirits that are not overly friendly; only following the letter of the commands.

2. Number of favors owed can be a big deal. If the PC is an elf built for conjuring I'm sure he'll probably have a good dice pool, but they can still burn through favors fairly fast if they aren't careful.

3. Unless the Voodoo practitioner takes the time and money to bind the spirits, they will be fading at the next sunset/sunrise. This means the character must either spend time and money binding spirits, or they will be constantly conjuring them. This increases the chance of the dice haunting them through things like drain, and depending on how they treat the spirits can quickly affect how the spirits react to the Conjurer.

4. A possessed critter (PC or otherwise) is now dual-natured. This means that they have new threats to worry about such as barriers, watcher spirits, other spirits, etc.

5. Spirits can't use technical devices, such as most cyber; thus limiting their benefits as the possess certain things. If the players think that buffing a Sammie via possession is a good idea, they better make sure that most of their augmentations are passive like bone-lacing and Dermal Plating/sheating since those are the types of cyber the spirit can still benefit from.

In my opinion, a possession tradition like Voodoo can create broken builds, but as has been pointed out time and again; so can many other things. The key is making sure that you as a GM understand what you are dealing with so that the player(s) can't take the fun out of the game for everyone else. If you think you can handle things then go for it. From the sounds of things, it doesn't sound as though you're worried about the player trying to over power game. Just make sure you know what you're dealing with before you say yes, and as you go along.
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Ten Suns
post Mar 27 2009, 02:14 AM
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Caadium, I should clarify that I'm another player, not the GM. Oops! Sorry about that.

I'm just wondering if folks think it's viable to build a character who faces and also does voodoo (i.e., possession) summoning, and if so, how one would go about it. I don't think the player cares whether he's Conjuring Aspected or not, as long as he gets to summon serviteurs or the like.

The thing that worried me the most is that, as I understand, a possessed character is going to rely on his spirit's mental attributes, even if he has Channeling (which he will, bough out of the karma he'll get to catch him up with the rest of us). So it's sort of like, if he's the face, his summonings are mainly for other stuff. So I'm trying to figure out a build that'll make him a great face, but still give him a secondary area of competency that lets him have fun being ridden by loa.
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Zurai
post Mar 27 2009, 02:46 AM
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QUOTE (Caadium @ Mar 26 2009, 09:38 PM) *
If I understand this correctly, he wants to be a Conjuring Aspected magician of the Voodoo tradition? If so, use the 5 point negative quality in Street Magic to reflect this. This quality gives them a fairly large negative to magical tests that are not from the conjuring skill group.


The problem with using Aspected Magician (Conjuration) is that you get -6 dice to your Vessel Preparation (ie, Enchantment) tests. That basically means your spirits won't be inhabiting most inanimate objects (Fx2 [OR]) and you're going to have a difficult time against anything but the most clueless people/critters (Fx2 vs Int+Wil). The +6 dice from being a prepared vessel makes a huge difference in what your spirits can possess, and with Aspected Magician you're going to be wasting a TON of time on the extended test to prepare a vessel.
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Nexushound
post Mar 27 2009, 04:52 AM
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Playing a Houngan from the Voo-Do tradition would be pretty cool for a face. While followers of Voo Doo beleive that all the Loa are worthy of devotion, practioners of Voo Doo are said to be picked at birth by a Patron Loa. You would just need to pick his patron Loa carefully. For the Face type character the Loa Erzulie (Seductress pg.194 BBB. Adv: +2 dice Illusion/+2 dice Con tests) would give the face just what he needed.
It is up to the GM how the possesion works as far as controlling the PC but Street Magic sidebar pg 103 "Roleplaying Possesion" states the following...

" A magician possesed by a spirit he summons is fully aware of what the spirit is doing and is still able to give it commands and directions. In the interest of fairness, it is suggested Gamemasters allow a player of a possesed magician to roleplay the spirit that they command and which is controlling their body. Gamemasters may want to consider extending this option to players whose charachters who are possesed by "Friendly" spirits so they are not relegated to the sidelines."

All in all a Houngan face is not a bad idea, after all those Voo Do types are pretty darn intimidating with all the Zombiez and other weirdness so I think it might work out for a good character.
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Larme
post Mar 27 2009, 06:14 AM
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QUOTE (Zurai @ Mar 26 2009, 10:46 PM) *
The problem with using Aspected Magician (Conjuration) is that you get -6 dice to your Vessel Preparation (ie, Enchantment) tests. That basically means your spirits won't be inhabiting most inanimate objects (Fx2 [OR]) and you're going to have a difficult time against anything but the most clueless people/critters (Fx2 vs Int+Wil). The +6 dice from being a prepared vessel makes a huge difference in what your spirits can possess, and with Aspected Magician you're going to be wasting a TON of time on the extended test to prepare a vessel.


I don't think that's such a big deal. AFAIK, loa basically only possess their summoners and dead bodies. Dead bodies have pretty low OR, being natural materials... I guess they might also possess small idols of themselves too, but again not much OR there. The only time you really need to prepare a vessel or risk failure is if you're making it inhabit technology, like your car, or maybe a plasteel haemonculus.
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Zurai
post Mar 27 2009, 05:06 PM
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There's no restriction, mechanically or in the background (even with the real life religion/tradition), on who or what a loa may possess.

If you're looking for a flavorful magician negative quality for a Houngan, Geas (Dancing) or Geas (Gesture) are good ones.
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Larme
post Mar 27 2009, 05:37 PM
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QUOTE (Zurai @ Mar 27 2009, 12:06 PM) *
There's no restriction, mechanically or in the background (even with the real life religion/tradition), on who or what a loa may possess.


I wasn't saying there was a restriction, just that those are the typical things for houngans to summon loa to possess. They could do something else if they wanted, but they don't need to in order to be a thematic vodoo practitioner. Thus, the inability to prepare vessels isn't a major handicap. That's all.
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Apathy
post Mar 27 2009, 06:38 PM
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I had always imagined that making little poppets for possession by low-force loa would be common among vodouins.
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suppenhuhn
post Mar 27 2009, 07:13 PM
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If he considers using a corpse over a longer period of time, then vessel preparation is vital.
The same is true if he wants to possess corpses with watchers, since those are nowhere as weak as manifestation ones and can in fact be really nasty.
Also conjurer cripples your assensing which is nice to have, especially if your gm allows bonuses from a successful roll to your social skills.
Additionally he would loose his ability to counterspell (well).

If he wants to only conjure and get a negative quality for it then better take incompetence (spell casting).

If you thus only take 4 magic skills (summoning,binding,assensing and counterspelling) at somewhat higher levels and enchanting to 1 with specialisation (which is enough unless you want to mass produce plasteel homunculi) you shouldn't have problems buying the whole influence group to 4.

Additionally the best control "spell" in the game by far is possession, if he's able to summon somewhat high force spirits (4ish should do) without too much effort he'll be able to control most average joes without a problem.

Don't worry about his survivability in combat too much, there are few things that are tougher to take down then a possessed voodoo mage and a guardian spirit also gives him more then enough offensive capabilities, even when unarmed.

Just be careful not to use his physical attributes as dumpstats too much since they add directly to his spirits force when possessed.

All in all voodoo is arguably one of the best paths to take for a face (even forgot that char is a drain stat) so he should be fine and when limiting himself to conjuring he shouldn't run out of bp too quick anyway.
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Rasumichin
post Mar 28 2009, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE (Larme @ Mar 27 2009, 07:14 AM) *
I don't think that's such a big deal. AFAIK, loa basically only possess their summoners and dead bodies. Dead bodies have pretty low OR, being natural materials... I guess they might also possess small idols of themselves too, but again not much OR there. The only time you really need to prepare a vessel or risk failure is if you're making it inhabit technology, like your car, or maybe a plasteel haemonculus.


Voudoun also knows the concept of serviteurs, believers who are ridden by the loa during rituals, as well as the practice of turning living, unwilling subjects into zombies via a combination of posession and ritual application of intoxicants.
In other words, it is pretty common that living, mundane metahumans are prepared as vessels- in fact, it is integral to the religious practices of voodoo, as well as related traditions such as candomblé.
Street Magic even uses a voodoo example for preparing vessels.

Therefor, i strongly advise NOT to take the Aspected Magician quality.
If you want the full voodoo flavour, you need Enchantment as well as Ritual Magic.
If the player doesn't care about direct spellslinging, just take Incompetence : Spellcasting or simply don't dump points into Spellcasting.


As far as the combination of face and houngan is concerned, the two work together neatly.
Of course, the houngan will not be able to function as a face while posessed- but houngans aren't ridden by the loa all the time.
You can turn that on and off at will and, as the loa may object to being constantly exposed to the physical world and posession is regerded as a state of deep religious reverence, a houngan will certainly not be posessed in all situations.

Besides that aspect, the combination is excellent, as voodoo is a Charisma-based tradition and many loa, especially Erzulie and Ghede, where described as particularly outgoing, flamboyant and social in earlier supplements such as SR2's kickass expanded magic sourcebook Awakenings (the first and, flavourwise, still best description of voodoo and the loas in SR).
Picking a mait teté (mentor spirit) with a bonus to social skills can be helpful, as well as qualities such as First Impression.
Biosculpting (from Augmentation) is another very cheap way to boost Charisma, it doesn't even cost Essence.
There's tons of other 'ware in the books that would be beneficial for a face, though i don't know how interested the player is in picking those.

Another possibility would be to become a Mystic Adept and use some of the adept powers enhancing social skills, such as Kinesics.
However, make sure not to cripple your competences as a magician by spending too many points on Adept powers.

Roleplay-wise, the combination is also potentially interesting.
Houngans are fun to play, i have always greatly enjoyed it to see a skilled roleplayer picking up a houngan as a character.
I say go for it, your group certainly won't regret it.
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HappyDaze
post Mar 28 2009, 05:25 PM
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QUOTE
Although Street Magic doesn't say anything along these lines, in my games possessing spirits enjoy the possession process about as much as materialization spirits enjoy being materialized; not at all really.

It never says that they don't enjoy it, merely that it makes them vulnerable to the physical world. Those two are not same.

Sex makes one vulnerable to STDs, but people still do it and (presumably) enjoy it. They just take precautions and use protection.

Participation in extreme sports makes one vulnerable to injuries, but people still do it and (presumable) enjoy it. They just take precautions and use protection.

Driving makes one...

OK. You get my point. Now just have the Spirit take precautions and use protection - things like selecting the best armored target of possession and making use of cover, etc.
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Ten Suns
post Mar 28 2009, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Mar 27 2009, 07:05 PM) *
As far as the combination of face and houngan is concerned, the two work together neatly.
Of course, the houngan will not be able to function as a face while posessed- but houngans aren't ridden by the loa all the time.
You can turn that on and off at will and, as the loa may object to being constantly exposed to the physical world and posession is regerded as a state of deep religious reverence, a houngan will certainly not be posessed in all situations.

Besides that aspect, the combination is excellent, as voodoo is a Charisma-based tradition and many loa, especially Erzulie and Ghede, where described as particularly outgoing, flamboyant and social in earlier supplements such as SR2's kickass expanded magic sourcebook Awakenings (the first and, flavourwise, still best description of voodoo and the loas in SR).
Picking a mait teté (mentor spirit) with a bonus to social skills can be helpful, as well as qualities such as First Impression.
Biosculpting (from Augmentation) is another very cheap way to boost Charisma, it doesn't even cost Essence.
There's tons of other 'ware in the books that would be beneficial for a face, though i don't know how interested the player is in picking those.


Awesome. I'll hit up Augmentation and Street Magic for potential inspiration and post a preliminary build.
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