 Increase/Decrease Magic spells, Possible? Broken? |
  |
 Jan 13 2004, 04:47 AM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032  |
Would an Increase Magic spell be possible? What about a decrease magic spell? Would they be too powerful? Discuss!
[edit]What about an Increase Essence spell?[/edit] |
 |
 
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 04:50 AM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
I think they are as possible as the Datajack guns the surgeons use to install Datajacks. I've always wanted to get an auto-fire version to shoot mages with.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 04:53 AM
Post
#3
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Datajack Guns? What book do they come from? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 13 2004, 05:03 AM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
OurTeam was being facetious. :)
The problem with either of those spells is that Magic and Essence are considered 'special' Attributes, in that they don't increase or decrease in the normal sense. The rules label them as such, and go to some lengths to differentiate them from the other Attributes. I believe that there is some proscription in the Adept chapter about them taking Improved Attribute: Magic or Essence, so you could use that as a guideline. In short, I would never allow this type of thing in my game. :) |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 05:12 AM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Ooh, that'd be interesting. Cast Increase Essence on a sammy, implant a lot of 'ware, have him or her do some jobs for you, then drop the spell and collect the 'ware and saleable organs.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 05:40 AM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
The datajack gun is used in combat to reduce a mage's essence (it works faster than multiple stim patches). I'm sure it must exist somewhere. I've been looking for it for 10 years.;) Maybe it's in the German book, along with the SMG with underbarrel grenade launcher.
I'd cast Increase Essence on the sammy just before trying to heal him, or just before trying to cast Decrease Charisma on him. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 05:53 AM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Would the Increase Magic spell be that broken? There is already precedence for a spell that increases a special attribute (reaction), and the effects of an increase magic spell don't seem that bad compared to an increase willpower spell (+6 willpower could let you soak the damage down to 0 rather than take stun instead of physical).
I accept that Increase essence would probably be abusable therefore probably broken. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 06:17 AM
Post
#8
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
One of the powerful aspects of a power focus is that it increases your effective magic rating. Making a spell that does half of a power focus's benefits seems a bit wrong.
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 07:22 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
Plus, you would have people initiating once, then quickening Increase Magic. :D
Besides, to get that +6 Willpower for a mage who already has a Willpower of 6, you would need to roll 12 6's - not impossible, but not by any means easy, either. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 07:47 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
12 6es are perfectly possible using sorcery, spell pool, expendable spell foci, and a karma reroll or two.
I ask again: is this spell really more powerful to a mage than something like increase Willpower? I accept that you could initiate once and quicken increase magic, but how often do characters really use spells ETC with forces over 6? My character in Sphynx's game occationally summons force 9 spirits but I have never seen any characters in games I have run or played in buy a spell over force 6. The 2*spell level TN to learn is just too hard, and nigh impossible for force 9+ spells |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 07:56 AM
Post
#11
|
|||
|
Senior GM Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,406 Joined: 12-April 03 From: Redmond, WA Member No.: 4,442 |
A power focus doesn't increase your Magic for the purposes of calculating Area-Affect spell radius. Nor for breaking through masking. Nor for the calculation of size of Spell Pool. Nor for determining the speed of Fast Astral Movement. Nor for determining Focus Addiction. Nor for calculating the TN for the opposed test during banishing. I'm not sure why you say this is one of the powerful aspects of a power focus. Its "increase" to the Magic Attribute has very limited uses: determining the maximum force spirit a magician can summon and determining whether spellcasting while in your body does stun or physical damage. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 13 2004, 07:57 AM
Post
#12
|
|
|
Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Magic affects more than just the Force of spells or Spirits you can safely handle. It also has a huge impact on the Area Effect of spells cast, speed of movement with spells like Levitation, not to mention contributing to the Spell Pool.
Edit: OurTeam's above post is full of good reasons not to allow this type of spell. |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 08:07 AM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Hmm. I didn't consider the levitate thing. OK: so the full +force to magic rating is out.
Do you think it would still be broken to allow limited versions that only affect magic under certain circumstances? IE: one version that gives a bonus to magic for purposes of spell effects, one for sorcery drain stun/physical determination, one for conjuring stun/physical determination, ETC. If you split it far enough then it become cheaper just to initiate... |
|
|
|
|
Jan 13 2004, 10:10 PM
Post
#14
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 78 Joined: 29-November 03 Member No.: 5,861 |
Expendable foci aren't quite that expendable when you consider their price. Blowing 18k just to sustain one spell for one run isn't exactly cost-effective. Not to mention an autofire burst will still take you down. :P Back on topic. I would definitely not allow this type of spell simply because it is open to all sorts of abuse. What's to stop an awakened type from taking an assload of cyberware or bioware, and just quickening such a spell to gain back all the lost magic without taking geasa? How would you deal with someone who, through an Increase Magic Rating spell, gains 12 extra points of foci to use without fear of focus addiction? Is it broken? Hell yeah it is. Ditto for Increase Essence. That's worse than giving the sammy a free access pass to the local deltaware clinic and a couple of million nuyen to run wild with. You need to be shot for even conceiving of such a monstrosity. :) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jan 13 2004, 11:20 PM
Post
#15
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 24-September 03 From: Albany, OR Member No.: 5,643 |
Increase Essence and feed the vampire nation! =)
|
|
|
|
|
Jan 14 2004, 12:21 AM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Of course it's broken. Cast it as force 6 and quicken it. Learn it some more, cast at force 12, then quicken that. Then cast force 18 fireball.
Obviously the above is practically impossible due to the ridiculous sums of karma and time required, but you see the idea. |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 24th April 2024 - 11:50 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.