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> How many Space Stations ARE there?, And how advanced is space technology?
Degausser
post Mar 27 2009, 06:24 PM
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Reading through the FUQ (frequently unanswered questions) thread on this board, someone posted that there is a space station at the L3 Sun-Earth LaGrange Point. For those of you without degrees in astrophysics, that means that directly opposite of earth and behind the sun, there is a space station. Like so:

L3 - - - -SUN - - - -Earth

My first thought was WTF! It would take about six months to ship anything between the two stations (That means, six months in deep space on a space shuttle, just to get food to people, or spare parts, or whatever.) And it would be a year-round trip for the resupply crew. Sure it is private, but it just seems way to inconvenient.

In Shadowrun, just how many space stations are there and how many are outside of the earth/moon system (in so-called deep space?) The only space station I know about is Zurich Orbital, and a few smaller research stations in geosynchronous orbit. What other space stations am I missing?
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DWC
post Mar 27 2009, 06:28 PM
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Target:Wastelands was full of information about how much junk the megacorps have boosted into orbit. Helios is the AresSpace station at L3, by the way. L1, L2, and L4 are hotly contested chunks of space, and L5 is a junkyard full of space debris that has found the happy galactic equilibrium point and isn't going anywhere.
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Adarael
post Mar 27 2009, 07:11 PM
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There are many, many space stations. Many small ones, a few larger ones, moon bases, a mars base - possibly two, even. Discussions about a research station on Titan, even. It's one of those well-kept Shadowrun secrets - there's a LOT of junk in space.
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Mr. Unpronouncea...
post Mar 27 2009, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (Degausser @ Mar 27 2009, 06:24 PM) *
My first thought was WTF! It would take about six months to ship anything between the two stations (That means, six months in deep space on a space shuttle, just to get food to people, or spare parts, or whatever.) And it would be a year-round trip for the resupply crew. Sure it is private, but it just seems way to inconvenient.


Shouldn't it be approximately 3 month trips (retrograde along earth-orbit)? Six months basically assumes you stay motionless and let the station come to you.

Besides, what crew? You'd need a rigger at undocking (earth station), and at docking (L3), and that's well within transmission ranges for a local rigger. Outside of that the dogbrain would be more than sufficient - there's nothing to run into and you wouldn't need supplies for the cargoship itself.

Only the actual crew-ships, which are probably pretty rare (like once every 2-5 years), would bother having people on them...and even then, it wouldn't suprise me if they were basically in an induced coma for the trip.
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WeaverMount
post Mar 27 2009, 07:49 PM
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searching the board for "LaGrange Point" will actually turn up some cool stuff.
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Draco18s
post Mar 27 2009, 07:54 PM
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QUOTE (Mr. Unpronounceable @ Mar 27 2009, 03:30 PM) *
Shouldn't it be approximately 3 month trips (retrograde along earth-orbit)? Six months basically assumes you stay motionless and let the station come to you.


I'd say more like 4, to account for acceleration, deceleration, and "max speed" (yes, there's no max speed in space, but if you're going somewhere you can only accelerate until you're at the half way point or until you have used up 1/4 of your fuel (half of your allotted amount to get there)).
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Mr. Unpronouncea...
post Mar 27 2009, 08:18 PM
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Thinking about it, more like 3-4 months best speed for a VP visit, but probably more like 9-12 months for standard cargo resupply - leaving the ship in approximately Earth's orbit, but slower and allowing the station to catch up would be the least-fuel-used scenario. Slowing to 50% of Earth's orbital velocity would take about 11 months for the station to catch up (quite close to it's starting postion, actually!)

And 1/4 fuel would be only be true for round-trips...if it's just a cargo drop, it's probably cheaper for them to be one-way trips. Or, possibly, a very extended return trip to Earth (at 90% orbital velocity, it may take a few years to get the empty box back to Earth, but it'd be quite cheap to do it.
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DireRadiant
post Mar 27 2009, 08:59 PM
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Don't forget about all the secret stations we don't know about yet!

Like the one the runners are about to be shipped off to....
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Browncoatone
post Mar 27 2009, 09:21 PM
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Makes one wonder exactly what is so secret/dangerous that they have to do it at L-3 don't it?
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Stahlseele
post Mar 27 2009, 09:51 PM
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i am still saying we need something like SHADOWRUN: IIN SPAACEE! ò,Ó
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Matsci
post Mar 27 2009, 09:59 PM
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QUOTE (Browncoatone @ Mar 27 2009, 01:21 PM) *
Makes one wonder exactly what is so secret/dangerous that they have to do it at L-3 don't it?


Trips to the Hive.
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Mr. Unpronouncea...
post Mar 27 2009, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (Browncoatone @ Mar 27 2009, 09:21 PM) *
Makes one wonder exactly what is so secret/dangerous that they have to do it at L-3 don't it?

Isn't it implied that that's the bug-metaplane expedition station?
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the_real_elwood
post Mar 27 2009, 10:40 PM
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I would think that's where Ares would be conducting those experiments. But that'd mean it's got to be a pretty big station to support enough biosphere for the mages they've got there.
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Matsci
post Mar 27 2009, 11:00 PM
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QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Mar 27 2009, 02:40 PM) *
I would think that's where Ares would be conducting those experiments. But that'd mean it's got to be a pretty big station to support enough biosphere for the mages they've got there.


They have a railgun that can lift 1 kg of material for about 20 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) . You have smart demolishers, coupled with the right equipment, can manfacture nearly anything out the elements in orbit. It's not hard to build things in space. It's hard getting stuff up there to build it with.
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TBRMInsanity
post Mar 27 2009, 11:00 PM
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Known stations (Target: Wastelands pg 75)
LEO (Low Earth Orbit) Stations (around 50 of these exits)
* Apollo Station (Ares run)
* Camelot Research Platform (Novatech (I'm guessing NeoNet runs it now))
* Himmelsschmiede Orbital Factory (S-K run)
* Shibanokuji Freefall Resort (Yamatetsu run)
* The Spindle (Aztechnology run)
* Zurich Orbital (the big ZO and home of the Corporate Court)
GEO (Geosynchronous) Orbit Stations
* Icarus Station (Ares run)
* Echo Station (Fuchi run (no idea who runs it now))
* The Obelisk (Hisato-Turner Broadcasting Corporation run)
* Silver Pinnacle (The Station House) (Trans-Orbital run)
Lagrange Points
* L1: Treffpunkt Raumhafen (Proteus run (no idea who runs it now))
* L2: Darkside Junction (Novatech (NeoNet now))
* L3: Nerva (a silent, lifeless hulk not used by anyone)
* L4: Daedalus (Ares run)
* L5: Junkyard (Contested between Yamatetsu and Novatech (I'm guessing Yamatetsu won as Novatech had no plans to rebuild the Junkyard))
The Moon
* Artemis Lunar Arcology (Ares run)
* Fernseit Luner Station (S-K run)
* Olympia Lunar Base (Novatech run (NeoNet now))
Deep Space
* Helios (Ares run)
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Doc Byte
post Mar 28 2009, 12:35 AM
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When I created a star system for my novel project I learnt that only L4 and L5 are stable. A station at L1, L2 and L3 would need thrusters for path corrections or drift into open space over time.

http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMM17XJD1E_index_0.html
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Dr Funfrock
post Mar 28 2009, 01:12 AM
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Yep. Hence why L4 and L5 are noted as having accumulations of debris, whilst the others aren't. The obvious advantage to using a metastable Lagrange point is right there; an artificial station can orbit correct, whilst debris can't, so you don't end up floating in your own private asteroid field of broken satellites and frozen astronaut shit.

The Lagrange points are all still favorable, because even the metastable points require far less orbital maintenance than anywhere else you could pick.
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Demonseed Elite
post Mar 28 2009, 01:32 AM
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QUOTE (the_real_elwood @ Mar 27 2009, 06:40 PM) *
I would think that's where Ares would be conducting those experiments. But that'd mean it's got to be a pretty big station to support enough biosphere for the mages they've got there.


It's mentioned on page 111 of Street Magic. Ares runs its Hive jumps from Daedalus station at L4. They have a special section of the station called Eden that is a greenhouse of special engineered flora to maintain a weak ambient mana field.
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Doc Byte
post Mar 28 2009, 02:12 AM
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QUOTE (Dr Funfrock @ Mar 28 2009, 02:12 AM) *
The Lagrange points are all still favorable, because even the metastable points require far less orbital maintenance than anywhere else you could pick.


Of course one might wonder why somebody wants to stay in the middle of nowhere in the first place.
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pbangarth
post Mar 28 2009, 02:12 AM
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QUOTE (Demonseed Elite @ Mar 27 2009, 06:32 PM) *
It's mentioned on page 111 of Street Magic. Ares runs its Hive jumps from Daedalus station at L4. They have a special section of the station called Eden that is a greenhouse of special engineered flora to maintain a weak ambient mana field.


How do the Awakened survive on the trip out there?
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Kev
post Mar 28 2009, 02:30 AM
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QUOTE (pbangarth @ Mar 27 2009, 09:12 PM) *
How do the Awakened survive on the trip out there?


As long as you're not dual-natured or projecting, you can survive in space just fine. It's when you hit the astral that it really begins to suck for you.

Unless, of course, you're in a gaiasphere like in Daedalus.
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Draco18s
post Mar 28 2009, 03:29 AM
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QUOTE (Kev @ Mar 27 2009, 10:30 PM) *
As long as you're not dual-natured or projecting, you can survive in space just fine. It's when you hit the astral that it really begins to suck for you.

Unless, of course, you're in a gaiasphere like in Daedalus.


In theory you could maintain an ambient mana field on the trip out, but it'd require a massive amount of flora on the ship. As such you could create a "Titan AE" type colonizer where onboard you could have enough ambient mana to allow for dual natured and astrally perceiving beings.
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Falconer
post Mar 28 2009, 04:29 AM
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Umm... reading some of the early comments I immediately realize that most of the posters have no clue about orbital mechanics.

If you consider the earth's orbit stable and close enough to circular... the earth is moving at roughly 30km/s. If memory serves, mercury is close to 50km/s in it's small tight little orbit. IIRC: earth has an escape velocity or roughly 12km/s.

Coming to a dead stop is not practical. One after accelerating to escape earth's immediate gravity. You'd need to fight said gravity and the sun's gravity just to hold position while waiting 6mo's for the station. Energy which would be better spent changing your orbit. Which when it got to you would still be moving at 30km/s, which you'd need to match velocity and orbit with (or have a nice collision once you've traversed the 3AU to get there). This has the other problem that the L5 isn't going to have the mass to have much of a capture velocity (or require nearly the velocity required to escape the earth in the first place on the way back).

Assuming for arguments sake, you drop from orbit moving 30km/s w/ escape velocity and are now managing 15km/s. L5 is closing on you at about 15km/s. You're looking at about 9 months til it catches up with you. The look of things isn't much different going the other way (accelerating and trying to 'catch up' with it's orbit)

If you have more energy, you could make it faster using a constant frame of acceleration type. That's the kicker for SR... how good are the engines and how do you fuel them. (reaction mass & energy).
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Draco18s
post Mar 28 2009, 04:54 AM
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Nononono. Get a mage to cast Levitate. That's gotta be worth something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)
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Browncoatone
post Mar 28 2009, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE
Of course one might wonder why somebody wants to stay in the middle of nowhere in the first place.
Why would someone want to live on the bottom of the sea, floating on the clouds of Venus, or on a private island in the south pacific?
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