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> Surge extra bp
merashin
post Mar 30 2009, 01:14 AM
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QUOTE (Runners Companion p. 73)
unlocks a number of additional Build Points to be used exclusively
to select Positive and Negative Metagenic qualities

QUOTE (Runners Companion p. 110)
Depending upon the Class of SURGE picked when buying
the Changeling quality (p. 73), the character gains a number of
Positive BPs that may be spent on the Metagenics qualities below
as well as those listed above.

From the way these are written it makes it seem that you actually get bonus build points to get metagenetic qualities instead of how i thought it was of just letting the character buy some qualities above the quality cap, essentially saying that i will have 405 bp if i buy surge 1, but the extra 5 is only for surge. Is this right or am i just going crazier?
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Draco18s
post Mar 30 2009, 01:29 AM
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They're not really BP, they're MGQP (meta-genetic quality points). It's points that you can use to define what kind of surge your character is without cutting deeply into the pockets of actual character creation.
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merashin
post Mar 30 2009, 01:41 AM
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the way i was reading it at first was that it was a 5, 10, 15 bp quality and it ended up costing 10, 20, 30 bp respectively, and i was just wondering whether my surged character has more bp to spend that i never realized
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Matsci
post Mar 30 2009, 02:10 AM
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QUOTE (merashin @ Mar 29 2009, 05:41 PM) *
the way i was reading it at first was that it was a 5, 10, 15 bp quality and it ended up costing 10, 20, 30 bp respectively, and i was just wondering whether my surged character has more bp to spend that i never realized


Example. You take Surge class one, and you pay 5 BP for it. You then Get 10 BP, worth of positive qualties, and 5 BP worth of negitive qualties. Neither of these qualties cost you anything in BP to take, other than buying Surge.
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Glyph
post Mar 30 2009, 02:17 AM
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Here's how it works. You spend the 5, 10, or 15 points, and get 10, 20, or 30 points of positive qualities, and 5, 10, or 15 points of negative qualities. So you wind up with a net 5, 10, or 15 points, but effectively go over the normal limits of 35 positive/35 negative - because it only counts as a 5, 10, or 15 point positive quality. Any positive or negative qualities that go over what you get for that level of SURGE count against the limit normally.

Some examples:

Mutant Bob selects the 10-point SURGE quality. For his positive qualities, he picks claws, fangs, and prehensile tail. For his negative qualities, he picks extravagant eyes and unusual hair. Even though he has picked 20 points in positive qualities and 10 points in negative qualities, it only counts as a 10-point positive quality. Bob can spend up to 25 more points before hitting his limit on positive qualities, and gain up to 35 more points before hitting his limit on negative qualities.

Beautiful Bruno selects the 15-point SURGE quality. For his positive qualities, he picks glamour and metagenetic improvement/Charisma. For his negative qualities, he picks nocturnal and symbiosis. The positive qualities total 35, which is over the 30 he gets from the quality. Therefore, in addition to the 15 for buying SURGE, he has to pay 5 more points, for a total of 20. Bruno can spend up to 15 more points before hitting his limit on positive qualities. The negative qualities total 20, which is also over the 15 he gets from the quality. Therefore, he gets 5 more negative quality points, and can gain up to 30 more points before hitting his limit on negative qualities. The net cost is 15 build points (SURGE III, +5, -5).
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Draco18s
post Mar 30 2009, 02:22 AM
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QUOTE (Glyph @ Mar 29 2009, 10:17 PM) *
Mutant Bob selects the 10-point SURGE quality. For his positive qualities, he picks claws, fangs, and prehensile tail. For his negative qualities, he picks unusual hair and vestigial tail.


A vestigial prehensile tail?
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Glyph
post Mar 30 2009, 02:29 AM
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I was picking semi-randomly, and didn't catch that. I changed it to make the example less confusing.
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merashin
post Mar 30 2009, 03:06 AM
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thank you, i guess i get to get some more stuff for my character
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KCKitsune
post Mar 30 2009, 08:31 AM
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QUOTE (merashin @ Mar 29 2009, 10:06 PM) *
thank you, i guess i get to get some more stuff for my character


Yup, but honestly, you should have a concept for what kind of SURGE character he's going to be.
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merashin
post Mar 30 2009, 03:37 PM
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i had all the surge in place, it just means i have 5 bp to spend elsewhere, like another quality or gear
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Kingboy
post Mar 30 2009, 06:44 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 29 2009, 10:22 PM) *
A vestigial prehensile tail?


Apparently you haven't seen the kinda porn I've seen...
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Heath Robinson
post Mar 30 2009, 06:53 PM
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I hear he can do origami with it.
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Draco18s
post Mar 30 2009, 10:02 PM
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QUOTE (Kingboy @ Mar 30 2009, 02:44 PM) *
Apparently you haven't seen the kinda porn I've seen...


Try me. I've read a lemon where the prose was in the 1st person narrative.

The main character was being eaten (chunks of flesh) and raped at the same time.

And yes, that was one of the most disturbing things I've ever read.
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Kingboy
post Mar 30 2009, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 30 2009, 06:02 PM) *
Try me. I've read a lemon where the prose was in the 1st person narrative.


"Seen" not "read", and I'm not talking about animated. But there's no way in hell I'm going down that path here on Dumpshock. A "who's seen the weirdest porn" pissing contest would be about as futile as trying to revise the entirety of SR4A to please everyone here with Cain and FrankTrollman as your only teammates.

T'was merely an amusing anecdote to suggest that a "vestigial prehensile tail" was not as unlikely as it might seem.
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Draco18s
post Mar 31 2009, 12:05 AM
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I'd say that I haven't seen any porn as weird as that, but I would consider myself within the right area to see some of the weirdest shit out there.

Living Latex anyone?

And that one's mild.

Oh, and all of this is hand-drawn (possibly computer aided) non-animated smut.
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Doc Byte
post Mar 31 2009, 11:04 AM
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Related question: If I take the 5GP Surge I quality, get a positiv Surge quality for 10GP and a negative one for 5GP, could I spend or gain regular GP on/from more Surge qualities up to another 30GP? As I read the rules, the Surge quality opens up this possibility.
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Medicineman
post Mar 31 2009, 11:45 AM
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IIRC thats quite possible

with an affirmative Dance
Medicineman
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InfinityzeN
post Mar 31 2009, 12:34 PM
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Yes you can spend additional BP as GP, up to your max total BP. You can not however spend GP as BP.
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Stingray
post Mar 31 2009, 12:37 PM
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5 BP SURGE to Street Samurai: Celerity (5 BP=faster movement) and Ogre Stomach (5 BP)
Lifestyle cost - 20% = more money to cyberware/bioware and negative quality would be Impaired Charisma (5BP)
(non-face/non-negotiator)..
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Draco18s
post Mar 31 2009, 02:14 PM
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Uh. I just realized that if 5BP gets you 10+GP and 5-GP then...

5 BP = 10 - 5 GP

5 BP = 5 GP.

You're not "gaining" BP anywhere.
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InfinityzeN
post Mar 31 2009, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 31 2009, 09:14 AM) *
You're not "gaining" BP anywhere.


Actually, your "gaining" BP to you can spend in Qualities above the 35 point limit. The same goes for the Negative Qualities. You can end up with 50 points total spend in positive and negative, compared to 35 each in a non-surged person.
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Draco18s
post Mar 31 2009, 05:13 PM
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QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Mar 31 2009, 12:05 PM) *
Actually, your "gaining" BP to you can spend in Qualities above the 35 point limit. The same goes for the Negative Qualities. You can end up with 50 points total spend in positive and negative, compared to 35 each in a non-surged person.


I see those BPs counted the same thing as a race quality (say, Drake, a 65BP positive quality that doesn't count towards the limit).
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InfinityzeN
post Mar 31 2009, 07:19 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ Mar 31 2009, 12:13 PM) *
I see those BPs counted the same thing as a race quality (say, Drake, a 65BP positive quality that doesn't count towards the limit).


No no, Surged counts against your Quality limit. But you still come out past the normal limit with it.

Example
35 normal - 15 for Surge III = 20 left
Surge III gives 30 points + 20 left for 50 positive.

Surged always balances out, since you get double the points you put into it in positive and the points you put into it negative. If they didn't count it as using positive quality points then it would unbalance the positive and negative (65 positive against 50 negative). It basicly just lets you break past the normal limit and gives you access to lots of very good Qualities that can only be taken by Surged people.
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Dumori
post Mar 31 2009, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Kingboy @ Mar 30 2009, 11:29 PM) *
A "who's seen the weirdest porn" pissing contest would be about as futile as trying to revise the entirety of SR4A to please everyone here with Cain and FrankTrollman as your only teammates.

Thats now in my signature.
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Draco18s
post Apr 1 2009, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE (InfinityzeN @ Mar 31 2009, 03:19 PM) *
No no, Surged counts against your Quality limit. But you still come out past the normal limit with it.


That's what I meant. The "surged" quality takes up normal BP slots as normal. The Metagenetic Build Points however do not.
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