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> Mystic Adepts and the Astral..., Are MA's full magicians, or half-magicians?
Cardul
post Mar 30 2009, 07:55 AM
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OK....this is something I have wondered. We know that normal Adepts cannot Astrally Project. Can Mystic Adepts?

Or are mystic adepts pretty much nothing more then Physical Adepts who just happen to be able to cast spells and summon spirits?
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Metapunk
post Mar 30 2009, 08:10 AM
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I am not sure at all, but I have always seen MA as as mixture of adept and magician, they cast spells, use adept powers and summon spirits. but they need to buy astral sight as well. but I would NEVER let a mystic adept be able to astrally project
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raggedhalo
post Mar 30 2009, 08:33 AM
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The rules say that Mystic Adepts can only Astrally Perceive if they but the Adept power that lets them. By the RAW, there's no way for a Mystioc Adept to Astrally Project under their own power. House-rule-wise, I guess you might allow a metamagic that let them do so if they already had Astral Perception.
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TheOOB
post Mar 30 2009, 08:38 AM
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I would be leery of letting mystic adepts project under any circumstances. On the one hand, mystic adepts are a little weak, but on the other astral projection is the magician thing, and there needs to be some advantage to being a full mage over a mystic adept, something a mystic adept can never compensate for.
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Cardul
post Mar 30 2009, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE (TheOOB @ Mar 30 2009, 03:38 AM) *
I would be leery of letting mystic adepts project under any circumstances. On the one hand, mystic adepts are a little weak, but on the other astral projection is the magician thing, and there needs to be some advantage to being a full mage over a mystic adept, something a mystic adept can never compensate for.



Obviously, TPTB have an even lower opinion of Mystic Adepts, given that a) there are no sample characters that are Mystic Adepts and b) As far as I know, all of the Jackpoint posters who are magically active are either physical adepts or full magicians...

Has there even been a mystic adept in a novel? Or, heck, even an NPC in an adventure that was one?
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Angier
post Mar 30 2009, 10:33 AM
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There was a Shadowtalker in SotA 2063 who talked about being a Mystic Adept. But there where many other one-time Shadowtalkers who described their seemingly rather rare magical aspect...
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Cardul
post Mar 30 2009, 11:11 AM
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QUOTE (Angier @ Mar 30 2009, 05:33 AM) *
There was a Shadowtalker in SotA 2063 who talked about being a Mystic Adept. But there where many other one-time Shadowtalkers who described their seemingly rather rare magical aspect...



Yeah...introduced towards the end of SR3, and not much to have been seen on them..

And they seem to be very much the "yeah, they exist..but..um, well...we forget about them" group...I mean there are more examples of female trolls in SR4 then there are examples of Mystic Adepts
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Angier
post Mar 30 2009, 11:43 AM
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Do we have any estimation on the share of the Mystic Adepts population compared to Magicians and Adepts?
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Cardul
post Mar 30 2009, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (Angier @ Mar 30 2009, 06:43 AM) *
Do we have any estimation on the share of the Mystic Adepts population compared to Magicians and Adepts?



No...TPTB do not give us much info on Mystic Adepts...
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Tunnel Rat
post Mar 30 2009, 01:46 PM
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Actually, state of the art 2064 introduced a 'limited astral projection' metamagic. It was specifically intended for mystic adepts who had the astral perception adept power. (No one else could learn it.) It would allow a mystic adept to astrally project just as a full magician could. However, the time limit for astral projection was limited. Instead of losing magic every hour, you lost it every minute.

I should point out that if you're playing SR4A, you shouldn't worry about Mystic adepts because no one's going to play one.
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AllTheNothing
post Mar 30 2009, 01:56 PM
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By RAW Mystic Adepts are unable to astraly perceive unless they take the astral perception power, which grantes the ability of astraly preceiving but not projecting; yet I've always disliked the way that Mystic Adepts are flashed out, in my opinion it would be better to handle awakened characters not as "classes" (warior, spellcaster, hybrid) but as sets of abilities, rapresenting the various abilities as Positive qualities (and said qualities shouldn't count against the limit on qualities because the are integral part of the character, more racial modifiers):

Astral Sensitive 10 BP
The character is able to astraly perceive and project, he/she can learn astral combat and assensing skills.

Sorcerer/ess 10 BP
The character is able to cast spells, he/she can learn the Sorcery skillgroup skills.

Conjurer 10 BP
The character is able to summon spirits, he/she can learn the Conjuration skillgroup skills.

Adept 10 BP
The character is able to invest his own mody with magic in order to augment his own abilities.

Both Conjurer and Sorcerer/ess qualities rapresent the relationship that the awakened character with the world around him/her and the magical forces that flow thruoght it, while the Adept quality rapresent the relationship betwen the character and his/hers own self, attuning the spirit to the body and bringing the intent closer to the action; in game terms Conjuration and Sorcery will use a special attribute called Magic while Adept's somatic magic will use another special attribute called Power, each of this attributes will have a cap of ESSENCE + Initiate Grade and each will have its separate initiation, Metamagic techniques that can be taken by both Adepts and Magicians use the best value betwen Magic and Power for determining their effects. Astral Sensitive quality uses whatever attribute (Magic or Power) the character already has, if the character doesn't already have a quality that grantes a special attribute he/she will recive a neutral magical attribute, the maximum rating of this attribute is ESSENCE + Initiate Grade, the character will be able to learn any Metamagic technique that doesn't require to be an Adept or having either Conjuration or Sorcery skills; if for whatever reason the character aquires one of the other qualities after having recived the Astral Sensitive quality he/she will have his/hers magical attribute and initiate grade (if any) converted into the new quality's special attribute (if the character aquires both the Magic and Power attribute at the same time he/she has to chose which attribute gets the boost).

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darthmord
post Mar 30 2009, 02:00 PM
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BTW, there is a power listed in SOTA 64 (I think that's the book) that let's Adepts / Mystic Adepts be able to Astrally Project for (Magic) Minutes.

Personally, I would not be adverse to letting Adepts of any flavor pick up Astral Perception and then Initiate to pick up the following MetaMagic & Advanced Metamagic...

Astral Perception (Adept Power)
Astral Projection, Limited (MetaMagic)
Astral Projection, Full (MetaMagic Advanced)

Basically, it'd cost a Power Point and two MetaMagics. That's a fairly steep cost.
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AllTheNothing
post Mar 30 2009, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (Cardul @ Mar 30 2009, 01:45 PM) *
No...TPTB do not give us much info on Mystic Adepts...

What would TPTB stand for?
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raggedhalo
post Mar 30 2009, 02:01 PM
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Actually, mystic adepts were introduced (as physical mages) in Awakenings 2057, which was a late-SR2 sourcebook...they were really scary because they were adepts who could also cast spells and use spirits. I think their win-ness comes from the mixture of the two skillsets in one place. I sometimes use mystic adept prime runners as antagonists in my game.
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The Mack
post Mar 30 2009, 02:03 PM
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QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 30 2009, 10:56 PM) *
Astral Sensitive 10 BP
The character is able to astraly perceive and project, he/she can learn astral combat and assensing skills.

Sorcerer/ess 10 BP
The character is able to cast spells, he/she can learn the Sorcery skillgroup skills.

Conjurer 10 BP
The character is able to summon spirits, he/she can learn the Conjuration skillgroup skills.

Adept 10 BP
The character is able to invest his own mody with magic in order to augment his own abilities.


An interesting idea.

Why not keep them at 5 BP each as they are now?

Adept is already 5 BP for the quality, and Magician for 15 grants your version of Sorcerer/Conjurer/Astral Sensitive.

Now it's the same price, but allows for more customization.

Otherwise to play a magician as it exists now, you'd need to spend 30 BP of your allowed 35 limit on positive qualities, which is definitely unfair.

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paws2sky
post Mar 30 2009, 02:05 PM
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QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 30 2009, 09:01 AM) *
What would TPTB stand for?


The Powers That Be
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Kingboy
post Mar 30 2009, 06:05 PM
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QUOTE (Cardul @ Mar 30 2009, 07:45 AM) *
No...TPTB do not give us much info on Mystic Adepts...


Which is rather annoying when you're trying to flesh out a character's background...


QUOTE (Tunnel Rat @ Mar 30 2009, 09:46 AM) *
I should point out that if you're playing SR4A, you shouldn't worry about Mystic adepts because no one's going to play one.


As the Mystic Adept Face for our current team, I'd beg to differ with that statement.
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suppenhuhn
post Mar 30 2009, 06:35 PM
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QUOTE (AllTheNothing @ Mar 30 2009, 03:56 PM) *
Astral Sensitive 10 BP
The character is able to astraly perceive and project, he/she can learn astral combat and assensing skills.

Sorcerer/ess 10 BP
The character is able to cast spells, he/she can learn the Sorcery skillgroup skills.

Conjurer 10 BP
The character is able to summon spirits, he/she can learn the Conjuration skillgroup skills.


Those would be nice if you could take it instead of those negative qualities.
Full mage should stay at 15 BP though, as well as adept at 5.
Also throw in the elemental adept for 10 and maybe a burnout mage (full mage, no initiation, magic stuck at 1 unless essence <1) for the same cost.
Knacks should also have fixed magic of one so that they actually make some sense.
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AllTheNothing
post Mar 30 2009, 09:30 PM
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QUOTE (The Mack @ Mar 30 2009, 04:03 PM) *
An interesting idea.

Why not keep them at 5 BP each as they are now?

Adept is already 5 BP for the quality, and Magician for 15 grants your version of Sorcerer/Conjurer/Astral Sensitive.

Now it's the same price, but allows for more customization.

Otherwise to play a magician as it exists now, you'd need to spend 30 BP of your allowed 35 limit on positive qualities, which is definitely unfair.

True but I've always thought that Adept and Magician qualities are worth more than they cost, and that their cheapness is due to their counting against the positive quality limit (and I've exlicitly stated that this techniques don't count against that limit, kind like infected qualities), however what you said is true and you can just give them the cost of 5 BP (Astral Sensitive comes to have the same cost of that Astral Sight knack from Street Magic thought).

One thing that I forgot to tell is that there's no need for Conjurer and Sorcerer/ess qualities to be of the same tradition, after all magic is a personal matter, it wouldn't be that strange for a japanese wage mage to have studied as an hermetic magician and so casting spells as such but summoning spirits as per Shinto tradition, he could just see spellcasting as a craft while summoning as communing with the spirit world and so the Kamis.
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TKDNinjaInBlack
post Mar 31 2009, 03:36 AM
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QUOTE (Tunnel Rat @ Mar 30 2009, 07:46 AM) *
I should point out that if you're playing SR4A, you shouldn't worry about Mystic adepts because no one's going to play one.


I too beg to differ as I am playing a mystic adept right now as well. I don't have much magic devoted to actual magic at all as my split at Magic-6 is 5 for adept power points and 1 for magician uses. The real use of this isn't to spell cast or summon though, but to have access to counter spelling as an ability and to learn the metamagic of shielding. Now my Unarmed Martial Arts Adept has better than average defense against spellcasting. It's well worth it.
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Octopiii
post Mar 31 2009, 09:32 AM
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I've been toying with the idea of a Mystic Adept from a possession tradition. Get access to channeling, and watch him tear through the streets! I may just take a crack at it tomorrow.
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suppenhuhn
post Mar 31 2009, 01:25 PM
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QUOTE (Octopiii @ Mar 31 2009, 11:32 AM) *
I've been toying with the idea of a Mystic Adept from a possession tradition. Get access to channeling, and watch him tear through the streets! I may just take a crack at it tomorrow.

I don't think the spirit would have access to your adept abilities though.
Might as well be wrong of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
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Kingboy
post Mar 31 2009, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE (suppenhuhn @ Mar 31 2009, 08:25 AM) *
I don't think the spirit would have access to your adept abilities though.
Might as well be wrong of course. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)


No, I don't believe they do, but he's talking about using the Channeling metamagic as well, where you and the spirit sort of share control as opposed to normal possesion where you sit in the back seat and watch while the spirit magically rigs your body.

So you can use your Adept abilities and what not while getting the stat bonuses, dual natured-ness, Immunity to Normal Weapons and other such benefits of possesion. And if need be, you can use a service to ask the spirit to use one of its powers/skills through you.
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Tyro
post Apr 1 2009, 06:14 AM
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Keep in mind that there are drugs that allow you to perceive or project even if you normally couldn't.
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Cardul
post Apr 1 2009, 08:50 AM
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QUOTE (Tyro @ Apr 1 2009, 01:14 AM) *
Keep in mind that there are drugs that allow you to perceive or project even if you normally couldn't.



Aff, but...um, honestly...why would you want to be making a Dream Pact with spirits that will take you over for a joy ride?
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