[X] My Assistant

[Tyro]

Also keep in mind that armor is Capacity-intensive. You can't put in that nifty Olfactory Sensor or Nanohive etc. if you fill it up completely with armor. Either of which is more useful than an extra point or two IMO.

[Dakka Dakka]

The Problem you are having is the Abscence of Hit-Locations and the abstract Armor/Damage-System.
Next Time you are wearing all that shiney Armor?
Yeah, guess what, Aimed shot right into your eye, no armor, bang, you are dead.

If you substract all armor from your dicepool, no problem, but not everyone has a dicepool larger than 20.

I know that this is a pretty large abstraction, but I'm fine with it. If you want to have all the details you should play rolemaster.

[Floyd]

I do no thave my books with me, but I believe under the take aim rules speak of called shots. In called shots it says that the usual place a shoot aims for is the trunk of the body, the larges part of the target. But one could take aim and call a part of the body, even the highly armored cyber feet previously spoke of. And I assumed that armored cyber limbs were to defend from those shots.

So the only truely effective cybered armored limb is the torso. But even this seems off. So they mention the cyber limb rule that states the attibutes of a cyber limb must be avaraged when in concern of the test at hand. But then some state that Armor is not an attribute (but I chose to interpert the use of the word "attribute" as "a quality possesed by" opposed to an offical game term). But how many do you avarage? The BBB sells six different limbs with more divisions. Divide by 6? Bionic 6?

So then there are those you say you should use all armor point bought as full armor. So buy 4 points for each of six full limbs, and go into any combat with +24 to your already worn armor. You're unstoppable. AAAARRRRGGLLLLPPPHHTT!!!

So why don't you avarage the armor bought per limb you bought and add it to worn armor. EX. 4 armor on 2 arms and 6 on one leg for an armor bonus of (4+4+6=14/3=4.6666 round up to) +5 a nice an reasonably potent armor. But then this suggests that buying one armored limb full out (+6?)will give you (6/1=) +6. That's one hell of a shield, especially if it is a foot. Do you always lead with that limb in combat?

Wait, what did I just say?

Pick a limb to lead with in combat, or choose one at the time of an enemy strike to apply that armor bonus. Surprize attacks (generally made to torso) don't get that bonus. Armor bonus still applies to the called shot. Attacks from the left get the left and center limbs, attacks from the right get right and center limbs, avaraged buy applied limbs or just cyber applied limbs.

This may be a problem that the story details at any given moment must decide how it works with in the rules that have been printed. Then what to do with meglomaniacal GMs?

(Don't play with them)

[Dakka Dakka]

I do no thave my books with me, but I believe under the take aim rules speak of called shots.

Too bad you don't have the books, reading would clarify a lot of things.

In called shots it says that the usual place a shoot aims for is the trunk of the body, the larges part of the target. But one could take aim and call a part of the body, even the highly armored cyber feet previously spoke of. And I assumed that armored cyber limbs were to defend from those shots.

Nope, you cannot target a specific location. You have four distinct options:

• avoid all armor.
• Increase damage by substracting dice from the dicepool
• disarm
• effect the target in a certain way e.g blind it, destroy a tire etc.

See p. 161 of SR4A or p. 149 f. of SR4

So then there are those you say you should use all armor point bought as full armor. So buy 4 points for each of six full limbs, and go into any combat with +24 to your already worn armor. You're unstoppable. AAAARRRRGGLLLLPPPHHTT!!!

Not unstoppable but highly armored, as it should be with a freaking metal body!
This is not hardened armor or a body of +24, so negative AP works pretty good.
BTW 24 is not possible due to capacity restrictions, not even with the bulk modification from Augmentation.

So why don't you avarage the armor bought per limb you bought and add it to worn armor. EX. 4 armor on 2 arms and 6 on one leg for an armor bonus of (4+4+6=14/3=4.6666 round up to) +5 a nice an reasonably potent armor. But then this suggests that buying one armored limb full out (+6?)will give you (6/1=) +6. That's one hell of a shield, especially if it is a foot. Do you always lead with that limb in combat?

As I said before in SR4 you cannot specifically target the foot, and Cyberlimb Armor only goes up to 4.

The Armor value is always a combination of the energy absorbing quality of the material and the area that the material covers. Look at worn armor. At least three different armors have a value of 6/4, and thus protect equally. The Chameleon Suit covers the whole body and has to be made out of the least resistant material; the Lined Coat covers only the torso, arms and upper legs, so it must be made out of more resistant material; lastly the Armor Vest only protects the torso and as such is made of the most resistant material.

On a related note, in your world does only the helmet protect against head shots? If so, consider that the helmet accompanying the Full Body Armor of the BBB, which should be made out of fairly resistant material, protects against headshots just as well as a leather jacket against torso shots. This is just plain weird.

Pick a limb to lead with in combat, or choose one at the time of an enemy strike to apply that armor bonus. Surprize attacks (generally made to torso) don't get that bonus. Armor bonus still applies to the called shot. Attacks from the left get the left and center limbs, attacks from the right get right and center limbs, avaraged buy applied limbs or just cyber applied limbs.

Excuse my french but RTFM!

Why wouldn't a surprise attack target a specific unarmored location, if the attacker had time to aim?

Just to make sure in your "realistic" world, can you shoot someone into his unarmored pinky and kill him? If you introduce hit locations without totally rewriting the combat section, this should be possible.(IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

This may be a problem that the story details at any given moment must decide how it works with in the rules that have been printed.

There is no problem if you describe what happens after the rolls have been made.

[crazyconscript]

[snip]
Not unstoppable but highly armored, as it should be with a freaking metal body!
This is not hardened armor or a body of +24, so negative AP works pretty good.
BTW 24 is not possible due to capacity restrictions, not even with the bulk modification from Augmentation.
As I said before in SR4 you cannot specifically target the foot, and Cyberlimb Armor only goes up to 4.
[/snip]

Actually, while 24 armour is not likely it is quite possible to get 22, and with no need for bulk mods as capacity wont come into it.
2xArms, 2xLegs and Torso with 4 points each (8 capacity) gives 20 straight off, and a cyber-skull with 2 (4 capacity)
Full limbs count their full armour to your armour rating, so thats 22 plus whatever you are wearing. So likely to be 30+ armour.
Of course, all that armour wont help you a damn against a taser or other electrical based attacks. And in my experience stun damage tends to be the downfall of heavily armoured characters as they have a shorter stun track.

[ornot]

I too recall seeing a dev someplace stating that armoured cyberware is cumulative with itself, and again with worn armour. Truly it can make someone literally bullet proof, which considering the cost seems reasonable. That being said, going full borg is not really intended in SR, so there's no reason it should come up.

[Stahlseele]

Not intended? O.o
did i miss something?
You can do that without going cyber-zombie . .
Heck, there's the Cybork in SR4 now o.O
Further, with that kind of Armor, even a full long narrow burst of autofire with ex-ex ammo will be doing stum-damage . . yes . .
but how many boxes? righto, too many, you black out. and then you are dead no matter what, as neither your eyes, nor your ears, nor your mouth or some other orifice is armored.
in this case, less can actually be more, as absurd as it sounds . . if your armor is less than the damage, you get physical, but you are more likely to resist . .
yes, stun damage is still as broken as it allways was, especially with toxins and stick and shock ammo and the like. .
And ALLWAYS take the 30+ Armor with a grain of salt, as we have not yet seen any official statement as to wether or not implant-armor counts towards encumberance or not . .

[hobgoblin]

hey, do not forget that burst fire do not stack for armor penetration reasons...

[Dakka Dakka]

Nonetheless it stacks for damage, which probably be stun, as Stahlseele pointed out.

@Stahlseele: How is physical damage easier to soak?

[Stahlseele]

because Body and armor is easier to pump up than will-power for example. also, longer physical tracks so it does not matter quite as much.

[crazyconscript]

if the damage is less than armour and causes stun, you still resist it with body+armour. Its just the damage type that is changed.

[hobgoblin]

Nonetheless it stacks for damage, which probably be stun, as Stahlseele pointed out.

indeed, it would make for some nasty stun damage.

[Tyro]

if the damage is less than armour and causes stun, you still resist it with body+armour. Its just the damage type that is changed.

But the size of your stun damage track is dictated by Willpower, so it's still easier to knock out the troll than kill him by a large margin. And if he's wearing enough armor, you might just knock him out with full-auto explosive fire (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Shinobi Killfist]

But the size of your stun damage track is dictated by Willpower, so it's still easier to knock out the troll than kill him by a large margin. And if he's wearing enough armor, you might just knock him out with full-auto explosive fire (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

to some degree yes, but if you are going full borg from character creation you can drop your natural physical stats to straight ones in except for reaction, letting you start off with a kickin will.

[Tyro]

to some degree yes, but if you are going full borg from character creation you can drop your natural physical stats to straight ones in except for reaction, letting you start off with a kickin will.

Even reaction doesn't have to be that high - MBW gives +6, or Synaptic Boosters/Wired Reflexes +3. And you can add reflex boosters on top of that ^_^

[HappyDaze]

If you're really going full (cy)borg, just remember that Stun damage has little effect on your vehicular body.

[Tyro]

If you're really going full (cy)borg, just remember that Stun damage has little effect on your vehicular body.

Very funny (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)