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#51
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 664 Joined: 3-February 08 Member No.: 15,626 ![]() |
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#52
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Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 ![]() |
I love that picture. |
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#53
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 17-March 09 Member No.: 16,986 ![]() |
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#54
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,768 Joined: 31-October 08 From: Redmond (Yes, really) Member No.: 16,558 ![]() |
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#55
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 997 Joined: 20-October 08 Member No.: 16,537 ![]() |
LOL! |
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#56
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Northern California Member No.: 2,021 ![]() |
I have this awesome visual of some too-paranoid-for-a-disposable-asset shadowrunner running around in some meet wiping his fingerprints off everything (while wearing gloves), and using his sissy 'no way is it real time'commlink to hide/conceal everything real about him in full face mask glory while the other runners get their uploaded info on thier commlinks and enjoy their 'free' meal and conversation with mr J, who promptly wipes his mouth and shoots the unprofessional freakO in the face. There's a certain threshold between 'clever ways to minimize backlash' and 'slow things down to a completely dull crawl due to unneccesary precautions,embarrassing all people involved'. How professional and serious should any employer be of someone who can't keep paranoia in check during the most basic of activities? Most of that stuff doesn't scream 'professional' to me, it screams 'I don't want you tracing me when I screw you over'.
A little paranoia is healthy, covering your ass acceptable. Going to such excrutiating measures unprompted as part of a routine just makes you stick out. You may as well have two mages assensing you and your target of conversation at all times, a ward set up around wherever you intend to buy ammo, and two mute homeless guys with emery boards and tinfoil hats attempting to file non existant serial numbers off caseless ammo. Oh, and two doses of Laes for them after they are finished doing it. And a third dose for the guy you bought the Laes from. |
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#57
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 115 Joined: 27-March 08 Member No.: 15,819 ![]() |
If Lone Star meticulously digs bullets out of victims, datamines broadcasted SINs and RFID tags, and if security is prompt with analysis of astral signatures, I’d say these measures become less paranoid.
If we’re playing this way, PCs get sent to prison. The AAAs you’re facing run dedicated security and forensic AIs. You wipe your datatrail at all the buildings you past on the way to the job, not just the installation itself (and hope that a random passersby doesn't post you in their MeFeed). Heck, that KE SWAT team might one day take it personally that you killed one of their own. Or perhaps that friendly meal from the Johnson is a test; either you find the antidote in time, or you’re the carrier for a GreenWar bioweapon; either way, you’re of potential useful to the cause. If the GM steps up the realism, evilness, or whatever, I have no qualms as a player about stepping up my countermeasures. I figure PCs follow these tricks of the trade on the Jackpoint or ShadowSEA forums. To me, it depends all on your group’s style. If you’re playing fast and loose, with guns blazing, minimal consequences, and no worries, sure, these measures would be excessive and unnecessary. But in the games I play, actions come back to haunt you, security is smart, vindictive and aggressive, and the Johnson doesn’t always play by the rules. |
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#58
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 141 Joined: 24-February 09 From: In the Shadows USA Member No.: 16,909 ![]() |
If Lone Star meticulously digs bullets out of victims, datamines broadcasted SINs and RFID tags, and if security is prompt with analysis of astral signatures, I’d say these measures become less paranoid. If we’re playing this way, PCs get sent to prison. The AAAs you’re facing run dedicated security and forensic AIs. You wipe your datatrail at all the buildings you past on the way to the job, not just the installation itself (and hope that a random passersby doesn't post you in their MeFeed). Heck, that KE SWAT team might one day take it personally that you killed one of their own. Or perhaps that friendly meal from the Johnson is a test; either you find the antidote in time, or you’re the carrier for a GreenWar bioweapon; either way, you’re of potential useful to the cause. If the GM steps up the realism, evilness, or whatever, I have no qualms as a player about stepping up my countermeasures. I figure PCs follow these tricks of the trade on the Jackpoint or ShadowSEA forums. To me, it depends all on your group’s style. If you’re playing fast and loose, with guns blazing, minimal consequences, and no worries, sure, these measures would be excessive and unnecessary. But in the games I play, actions come back to haunt you, security is smart, vindictive and aggressive, and the Johnson doesn’t always play by the rules. This is the type of play I'm used to as well a healthy dose of reality and consequences with your fantasy is sometimes the only way to not end up shooting everyone that see's your face. |
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#59
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 17-March 09 Member No.: 16,986 ![]() |
To me, it depends all on your group’s style. Yes, it depends on your groups style. But it's not because one way of playing is "real" and another is not. You don't know what would really happen in this world. If you think you're being more real by developing a detailed plan to avoid detection, you're kidding yourself. You are just being more detailed, which is great because it's what you like. It all depends on what your group has fun with. Some groups love to get into all this detail. The GM has fun finding minute elements that the PCs overlooked and the PCs have fun picking apart every encounter looking for the smallest clues. Some groups would rather roll a few relevant skills or abilities to erase traces of their presence from the scene of the meet, detect bugs or poisons on their persons or whatever. This lets them move on with the plot, which is what they find fun. Neither group is being more real than the other, they just have different styles of play. |
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#60
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Northern California Member No.: 2,021 ![]() |
How 'real' is to assume that every employer is out to screw over it's deniable assets?
Exploit? Sure. Use without consequence of their safety and well being? Absolutely within the realm of reason. But the whole reason the runner/johnson relationship is a staple of the game is based on a somewhat stable level of mutual dependence and trust. Sure,both sides can and often do stretch it a little, and its generally a given that somebody is occasionally going to violate a rule, but I wouldn't personally replace 'professional caution' with 'unchecked paranoia'. But if Mr J wants patsies, he can probably go about it easier and cheaper then wreaking havoc in the shadow community just because he can. As a GM, I've killed plenty of PC's with no remorse due to whims of the dice or stupidity in situations, combat or social. Life's pretty cheap post 2050, That's what seperates this game from many others, there's no reset button or get out of jail free rez. How does the 'man with no trace' actually get a rep? How does the man with no rep get away with potentially excessive breaches of ettitquette (depending on the locale, Im sure some measures are more extreme then others)? I'd offer that it's no less 'realistic' for a J acting above board to show some guy the door because the working relationship isn't quite right then it is to fret over fingerprints or food at your typical meet. Paranoia doesn't generally lend itself to trust in new contacts, and old ones can find the behavior outright offensive- and the ones that don't probably have an even better plan to screw you over anyways. Playstyles vary, but a chem analyzer or sniffer could be utilized discretely without the faux paus of 'not eating' in certain cultural establishments for example.Or Tox filters, or broad spectrum antidotes preingested. And Im not saying the ultra paranoid cover all bases spend XXXX hours of game as 'prep time' is 'wrong' or 'lame' or any sort of value judgement on the fun factor, I just know how my johnsons would react to extreme social stigmas piled up on top of each other for a meet and offering a counterpoint. For the run itself, I welcome and advocate nearly any level of preparation, it just heightens my players paranoia. for the meets, I like the cautious professional attitude unless there's a suitable reason, complication or backstory. |
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#61
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 ![]() |
The AAAs you’re facing run dedicated security and forensic AIs. You wipe your datatrail at all the buildings you past on the way to the job, not just the installation itself (and hope that a random passersby doesn't post you in their MeFeed). These both are situatins where data balkanization and theer amount of data, are really you friends. 99% of the time the corp you hit won't risk the possibly heavy consequences of hacking other corporations nodes to get those camera feeds that might be there or might not. |
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#62
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5 Joined: 17-March 09 Member No.: 16,986 ![]() |
I just know how my johnsons would react to extreme social stigmas piled up on top of each other for a meet and offering a counterpoint. Heh, I'm picturing the runners weighing all their gear after every run. Secretly roll a d6 for each item and randomly make it over or under by that many milligrams. Y'know, due to wear and tear or picking up a bit of extra carbon dust or sweat. See if they're willing to trash all their expensive kit because it the weight is wrong. Or if they all go around everywhere in breathing apparatus, Lonestar marks them as potential bioterrorists. I mean, you gotta keep the players from being overconfident about predicting where the threats come from. Otherwise how're they gonna stay paranoid? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif) Anyway, some of the ideas on the list are badass. I'm new to SR, but I like the spare comlink slaved to your real one that's in hidden mode. And the hardwired cyber with a physical cutoff switch to the commlink. And the ABCDEF mission ranking. To me, they're good tips for various characters. Just sayin' that it's not like every group has to develop a detailed SOP for every situation, to be real. And the SOP can definitely vary between groups, so I'd say it's less of best practices and more like tips to avoiding getting screwed in SR. With the first one being "stay in control of the situation, but don't make the Johnson think you're insane." |
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#63
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 992 Joined: 2-August 06 Member No.: 9,006 ![]() |
With the first one being "stay in control of the situation, but don't make the Johnson think you're insane." Which, coincidentally, is the same first rule Mr. Johnson should follow (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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#64
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 ![]() |
These both are situatins where data balkanization and theer amount of data, are really you friends. 99% of the time the corp you hit won't risk the possibly heavy consequences of hacking other corporations nodes to get those camera feeds that might be there or might not. You don't have to hack. Everybody knows people who owe them favors, and you owe them favors. |
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#65
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,768 Joined: 31-October 08 From: Redmond (Yes, really) Member No.: 16,558 ![]() |
<snip> Or if they all go around everywhere in breathing apparatus, Lonestar marks them as potential bioterrorists. <snip> I agree if you're talking about a full gas mask, but look at modern-day Mexico City - the pollution is going to look a lot like that in most major cities in the 2070's. I imagine respirators would be pretty common in more polluted areas, esp. LA and Tenochititlan. |
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#66
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Great Dragon ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 5,542 Joined: 30-September 08 From: D/FW Megaplex Member No.: 16,387 ![]() |
I agree if you're talking about a full gas mask, but look at modern-day Mexico City - the pollution is going to look a lot like that in most major cities in the 2070's. I imagine respirators would be pretty common in more polluted areas, esp. LA and Tenochititlan. Required in Tenochititlan, actually. The smog there is so bad no-one can go outside without one. And also, look at modern-day Japan/China. Same thing there as in Meheeko. |
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#67
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 125 Joined: 21-March 10 From: Denver, CO Member No.: 18,325 ![]() |
Well, my group has a planning system that we called A-F. It's not a true grading scale since that is only really measurable by objectives are accomplished, but it more or less represents the level of problems occurring. A is for Awesome. Everything goes perfectly. No one, friend or foe gets killed (unless that is the objective) and nothing gets destroyed (unless that is, again, the objective). Quick, clean and quiet should be the hallmarks of a successful plan A. B is for Backup. Like plan A was ever going to work. At this point, a little bit of destruction and mayhem is acceptable, but it should be relatively subdued. Nothing obvious, and no extracurricular killings. C is for Combat. If things go badly enough, it doesn't matter who you kill. At a plan C level of execution, property destruction is to be kept to a minimum, but this involves a firefight. D is for Demolitions. Nobody likes modern architecture anyways. Grenades around every corner. If you need a door, make one. That five pound brick of C4 you were saving for a rainy day? That is today. That subcompact stuffed to the rafters with a fertilizer bomb could be useful. Short term survival is more important than making a mess, albiet a bloody, rubble covered mess. E is for Escape. If absolutely everything goes to hell, get out. At this point, the mission doesn't matter. Get out alive. This part can be partially extracted from the A or B escape plans, but it should be beefed up due to the increased nature of the threat. F is for Failure. Not everyone is going to make it out alive. Accept it. Salvage whatever you can and get out with whatever you can. Someone might have to make a last stand. Someone might have to volunteer a friend's area effect cranial bomb for the job. Life sucks. G is for God(s) help you. Almost no one is going to make it out alive. Forget salvaging anything, just pray you make it out with your own skin and most of your internal organs. A miracle is your only hope now. H is for Hell. This is where you're going. Everyone is going to die, probably in a very painful and gruesome manner. You're all going to hell for botching the run this badly. |
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#68
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Prime Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 ![]() |
Argh, kill it with fire, kill it with fire.
Don't let the shedim loose. |
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#69
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Canon Companion ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 ![]() |
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#70
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Target ![]() Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 11-June 09 Member No.: 17,269 ![]() |
**
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#71
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 ![]() |
If Lone Star meticulously digs bullets out of victims, datamines broadcasted SINs and RFID tags, and if security is prompt with analysis of astral signatures, I’d say these measures become less paranoid. Ok, lets just acknowledge that the powers that be in Shadowrun do technically have the facilities to track you down, and rape you up the ass with a stun baton. However I would argue that the point of Shadowrun is for a few friends to get together on a Saturday evening and drink a few beers while pretending that they are elves with submachine guns who shoot people in the face for cash money. Having the GM kill your character because you forgot to check your intestinal tract for RFID tags is not conducive to the former. Now I'll throw a few things out there that might encourage you to ease up on your PC's. 1) The world is balkanized. You can't drive across town without crossing borders, nevermind jurisdictions. Lone Star isn't going to give a good god damn if you commit a crime on Ares turf. 2) The world is corrupt. Anything short of the public execution of a major figure should be solvable by slipping some nuyen to the offended party real quiet like. 3) The powers that be realize that deniable assets are an important part of business. If you start offing every deniable asset that works against you, soon there will be no deniable assets left when you want some dirty work done. 4) There is a lot of crime... everywhere. Investigative departments are swamped with cases. It might take them six months to finally work their way through to the crimescene that your PC's left behind. |
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#72
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,748 Joined: 25-January 05 From: Good ol' Germany Member No.: 7,015 ![]() |
If you're trying to beat gait analysis software, the best thing to do is become another person for a little while. Just chip a personafix and blam - suddenly you aren't you anymore. They're also great for social infiltration purposes. or You use seperately inflatable soles in combination with 1 (or 2) inflatable Hunchbacks (complete it with a downloaded Personality Chip of Igor ; Frankensteins Assistant) He who dances in a Thunderstorm(Its alive,ALIVE) Medicineman |
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#73
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Immortal Elf ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,289 Joined: 2-October 08 Member No.: 16,392 ![]() |
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#74
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,899 Joined: 29-October 09 From: Leiden, the Netherlands Member No.: 17,814 ![]() |
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#75
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Running Target ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,244 Joined: 2-August 07 Member No.: 12,442 ![]() |
Some good ideas in the thread, but overall a lot of overkill.
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 29th August 2025 - 10:04 PM |
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