[X] My Assistant

[BlueMax]

I don't think "Being a Criminal" hits the nail on the head. There are many types of criminal. Not to belittle First Edition but in first, we were Robin Hood. Somewhere around Second Ed, we saved the Rod Damned world. Maybe that was too far, but it certain wasn't heartless , thoughtless, or one fraggin dimensional.

Sure, Glyph, the main book now has a villian^H^H^H^H^H^H errr Toxic^H^H^H^H^H^H radical eco shaman. And yes the game will let you play whatever you want. However, that's not all fine and good when what adventures published don't let the players act on good.

There is a Mission where the characters are the tools used in the death of a young child. The adventure allows no deviation from this point.
In Ghost Cartels there is nothing for the characters to do but contribute to the plague on humanity. The train tracks ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H adventure offers a great view of the disaster as it happens.

The main book is open, sure fine and dandy. The examples presented getting more and more violent and heartless. Trend lines count.

However, its not an "all time" low to me. My group and I can play however we want, we can trash trashworthy adventures and move on. And yes, we do play "Hero Criminals". Something akin to Firefly or Serenity. Criminals with a heart who don't take crappy jobs and won't do the absolute wrong thing.

When this subject comes up, its a great laugh for many of you. However, I encourage everyone not to respond quickly. Take a deep look at material published before 1996 and then after.

Now to stir more controversy, and perhaps cause a flippant response such as "Shenanigans", I present an All Time Low.

All Time Low: Shadowrunning becoming a publicly used term. There have always been people performing acts outside the norm, and they have never needed new fangled fancy names. Criminal fits nicely, as they do break the law.

BlueMax
/"I'm going to Pistol whip the next person to say Shenanigans"
//"AH, whats the name of that restaurant Blue Max likes to eat at with all the Goofy Drek and the Mozzarella sticks?"

[Dr Funfrock]

Lowest point in Shadowrun?

The fact that, in all probability, I will always look at my copies of Shadows of North America, Shadows of Europe, and Shadows of Asia, sitting on the shelf, and feel like there's an empty space where a fourth book should be.

[Uli]

Shadows of Antarctica?

[Wesley Street]

Shadows of Seychelles.

[GreyBrother]

Shadows of Lower Austria!

[Wesley Street]

Shadows of LAos!

[Uli]

Shadows of Nowaja Semlja! You don't want to go there...

[The_Vanguard]

The Dissonance - suddenly we had Jedis in the matrix. "I sense that the dissonance is strong in you, young Pax."

No, thank you. In my campaign the Deep Resonance is a neutral force (or state of being). "Dissonance" is just propaganda every group of 'mancers stick at stuff they don't like.

[Warlordtheft]

Catalyst changing the rules at the last moment due to fanboy whining. Does that mean we can get talking pink ponies added to canon if we just beg long enough?

With the SURGE rules applying to critters, I thought it was canon. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotate.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Well, add certain bioware to centaur, and you are pretty close neh?

[Draco18s]

And now, for a little rebuttal:

I am not continuing this debate here.

BTW, since we're going around insulting the intelligence of others, I must say that it's wonderfully bright of you, after having a forum admin close the topic you are discussing (because the topic was getting too hostile), to go onto another topic in the forum and insult the intelligence of the people who disagreed with you.

For that exact reason.

Though you could look at the date and see that my post was well before the original thread was closed.

And the rest of your post goes unread.

Because you're the one crapping all of another thread with this.

That thread is merely one of several reasons used as an example for why I have an extreme distaste for humanity (yes, that's right, the species).

[Kev]

I have to agree with the lowpoint, in recent memory, being SuRGE. I mean really, parts of it were pretty interesting, but most of it was just... eh. Especially the random rolling of SuRGE-related happenings. Random rolling? What is this, That Other Game?

Another bone than sticks in my craw is the sudden main-streaming, in the metaplot, of Shadowrunners, especially in the whole LA scene. In my vision of it, Shadowrunners are criminals who, I don't know, stick to the shadows. The metaplot seems to say that shadowrunning is as common as having a NORMAL job. But maybe that's just me.

That having been said, I think that everything that SR4 has been doing is right on track. The feel of the game (except for that little bit above) is right and the sourcebooks and materials have been top-notch. I think that right now in SR it's sort of a new renaissance, and that's a really nice high-point.

[Demonseed Elite]

Another bone than sticks in my craw is the sudden main-streaming, in the metaplot, of Shadowrunners, especially in the whole LA scene. In my vision of it, Shadowrunners are criminals who, I don't know, stick to the shadows. The metaplot seems to say that shadowrunning is as common as having a NORMAL job. But maybe that's just me.

The Los Angeles runner scene is pretty atypical. L.A. has found a way to commercialize the runner subculture the same way it commercializes every single other subculture.

[SpasticTeapot]

I've generally found that the best way to return the 80s mindset is to put Howard Jones, Thomas Dolby, and the Human League on infinite loop. It might not actually fit with the book setting, but I don't give a dang - my world is full of people with trenchcoats and day-glo orange hypermullets.

Part of the problem is that the timeline kept being advanced by huge lumps. During the 80s, you had a climate where technology was expensive, ugly, unreliable, and available only to the very wealthy, the very powerful, or the very dangerous. During the 90s, technology started to become universal. During the naughties, we don't even think about it anymore - it's a case of "shoes, coat, iPod, scarf, gloves".

I haven't discounted ever building a SURGE character, it's just not ShadowRun for me.

I haven't looked much at the SURGE rules, but I'd use 'em to create mutants freaks, likely caused by corporate toxic waste "accidents".

Anyone here ever read the Ear, the Eye, and the Arm when they were kids? A character like the Eye has massive utility...providing he's not blinded by ordinary noon daylight.

Also, I've found that some of the most fun characters to play are those who violate stereotypes. Catgirls are generally not expected to be 6'5" 275 pound bodybuilders with the ability to punch through reinforced concrete.

Where before, it was color, then moved onto metas/humans, now even branches off and becomes ''who cares if the guy next to you has hands bigger than your head when the guy next to HIM looks like something out of the 2012 manga-adaptation of Dante's Inferno...WITHOUT cybermods?''

A "mutietown" might be very interesting indeed, especially considering the large percentage of SURGEd individuals with magic. It's generally a bad idea to mess with people who can round up a posse of initiated spellcasters at a few minutes' notice.

That was velveeta madness.

Is this in any way related to reefer madness? It's the only way I came up with to parse this phrase.

[Stahlseele]

Catgirls are generally not expected to be 6'5" 275 pound bodybuilders with the ability to punch through reinforced concrete.

You don't get around Cat-girls much eh? *snickers* ^^

[Draco18s]

Anyone here ever read the Ear, the Eye, and the Arm when they were kids? A character like the Eye has massive utility...providing he's not blinded by ordinary noon daylight.

OMG, awesome book. I wonder if I still have it around...

[Ancient History]

A "mutietown" might be very interesting indeed, especially considering the large percentage of SURGEd individuals with magic. It's generally a bad idea to mess with people who can round up a posse of initiated spellcasters at a few minutes' notice.

We have that. It's in Chicago.

[10gauge]

[...] (I.E. up until the last few days I considered this forum to be relatively intelligent, albeit some questions that can be answered by quoting the rules, such as "do mages need to move their hands to cast spells?" can be answered by the section on page 168 "Noticing Magic" (It can be overlooked, I understand).

If you understand... why are you posting this as an example? oO

[SpasticTeapot]

We have that. It's in Chicago.

Have you considered selling a "Gargantuan PDF Collection of out-of-print goodness?" For $30, you could sell $0.04 worth of bandwidth full of books I can't buy any more.

The only other alternatives are piracy and buying used off eBay, and if you could offer an alternative that lacked the potential bundled malware of the former and secondhand chee-tohs stains of the latter, it would be awesome.

[Ancient History]

No, not out of print. I mean in Feral Cities. We have a little community of changelings run by the white sheep of an ancient political dynasty that goes by the handle Muppet.

[Draco18s]

If you understand... why are you posting this as an example? oO

It was an example of something I don't mind.

[Adam]

Have you considered selling a "Gargantuan PDF Collection of out-of-print goodness?" For $30, you could sell $0.04 worth of bandwidth full of books I can't buy any more.

We're working on getting the remaining OOP books online. The original plan for getting them scanned and OCRed wasn't working out for a couple reasons, but we have a new arrangement that, once the ball gets fully rolling, should wrap everything up quite neatly.

[Malachi]

We're working on getting the remaining OOP books online. The original plan for getting them scanned and OCRed wasn't working out for a couple reasons, but we have a new arrangement that, once the ball gets fully rolling, should wrap everything up quite neatly.

Tops on my list would be Cybertechnology and the Lone Star sourcebook.

[Stahlseele]

We're working on getting the remaining OOP books online. The original plan for getting them scanned and OCRed wasn't working out for a couple reasons, but we have a new arrangement that, once the ball gets fully rolling, should wrap everything up quite neatly.

If you make that happen, i will have to buy all of them o.O

[ravensmuse]

I haven't looked much at the SURGE rules, but I'd use 'em to create mutants freaks, likely caused by corporate toxic waste "accidents".

Wow. I have to admit that I've never thought of that before.

Also, I've found that some of the most fun characters to play are those who violate stereotypes. Catgirls are generally not expected to be 6'5" 275 pound bodybuilders with the ability to punch through reinforced concrete.

Aisha Clan-Clan from Outlaw Star is a good example of this.

A "mutietown" might be very interesting indeed, especially considering the large percentage of SURGEd individuals with magic. It's generally a bad idea to mess with people who can round up a posse of initiated spellcasters at a few minutes' notice.

I need Feral Cities so bad.

Is this in any way related to reefer madness? It's the only way I came up with to parse this phrase.

I'm surprised no one jumped on this. This comes from Velveeta Cheese, a brand over here in America.