Mystery Noir Shadowrun, Shadowrun meets Harry Dresden? Options

[Eleint]

A question I've come to ask for curiosity sake: has anyone taken Shadowrun 4E and put it through a noir detective lens? I mean shaped the entire campaign around a group who are based on standard noir detective tropes with a supernatural thriller basis?

Basically Harry Dresden or John Taylor in Shadowrun. Lots of weird supernatural hoodoo, ghosts, pretty dames in trouble, and characters who rather than are criminals, they're making ends meet in a weird world.

If so, how'd it work out? I tend to prefer this sort of focus to the 'you're all criminals!' baseline, so am fairly curious. It's something I personally would love to play in as well as run, so advice is good if anyone's willing to offer it.

[Glyph]

Not sure I'd consider John Taylor "noir". The Nightside books are more like noir meeting Dragonball Z. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

I think detectives have all kinds of possibilities in Shadowrun, and every edition of Shadowrun has had at least one detective archetype in it. I'm not as fond of noir - I have nothing against using elements of it, but I don't like hardwired "themes" in a game, stuff like "You are a cog in the machine and can never affect the megacorporations" or "Your characters will always face no-win situations, and no amount of lateral thinking can get you out of it". It's too easy to go from a mood or theme to outright railroading. I prefer games where the mood arises more organically from the mix of the characters interacting with each other and the NPCs.

[Synner667]

Well, Cyberpunk has its roots in Noir fiction [especially people like William G], so the current trend of everyone is a criminal is the crowd-pleasing version of SR.

Just finished the Nightside trilogy of double books, and there's lots of good ideas there...
...Definitey something to have in my twisted London

Am going to go back and read the Dresden Files again, now that I have all but the newest.

[paws2sky]

This is something that's been brought up by members of my group. And it has a certain appeal to me... Since my group seems to be in the process of re-forming, I may just put the idea on the table for the new group to see what they think.

Definitely need to sit down and hash a few things out though.

For one, I'm not a fan of the players being perpetually screwed. Maybe that's just me projecting my own issues with some of my old GMs. I guess if that's something the players wanted, we could do it.

On the other hand, I like the concept of Fatal Flaws (I may even work it up as a negative quality). Basically, a character's fatal flaw is some kind of weakness of personality or obsession that regularly trips the character up. Greed, gambling, women, a vengeful streak, or whatever. Something that 90% of the time over rides the character's common sense and compels them to act in a certain way.

-paws

The more I think about it just now, the more I'm wondering if the detective mystery genre might be more what I'm looking for. Maybe a conspiracy... Hmm.

[Red-ROM]

I played in a small SR3 game as a Noir detective (there was only 3 of us including the gm). I had a PI company and a Voodoo sidekick. It was great fun. Not sure how well it would work if you had like 6 or 8 people in a group though.

[Adarael]

A question I've come to ask for curiosity sake: has anyone taken Shadowrun 4E and put it through a noir detective lens? I mean shaped the entire campaign around a group who are based on standard noir detective tropes with a supernatural thriller basis?

Basically Harry Dresden or John Taylor in Shadowrun. Lots of weird supernatural hoodoo, ghosts, pretty dames in trouble, and characters who rather than are criminals, they're making ends meet in a weird world.

If so, how'd it work out? I tend to prefer this sort of focus to the 'you're all criminals!' baseline, so am fairly curious. It's something I personally would love to play in as well as run, so advice is good if anyone's willing to offer it.

I believe you've just described the vast majority of Shadowrun games I've run, honestly. Maybe not "everyone's a detective", but the games definitely have a Kiss Me Deadly or Maltese Falcon theme to them. It's a game about McGuffins, after all, and it's not too big a leap to suggest the cops are as overworked and corrupt as they are in film noir. Femme Fatales? Easily done. Double and triple crosses? Sure!

Hell, I've always operated from the perspective that cyberpunk was just sci-fi detective fiction.

[Daddy's Litt...]

With Gibson and Bladrunner being the cultural parents of cyber punk it is more an issue of how SR drifted away from its roots. Our games always have a strong film noir element to them with brief bursts of explosive violence-like a sean Connery James Bond movie.

As the game was explained to me, runners are supposed to be subtle. Otherwise they are just thugs.

[Eleint]

For one, I'm not a fan of the players being perpetually screwed. Maybe that's just me projecting my own issues with some of my old GMs. I guess if that's something the players wanted, we could do it. On the other hand, I like the concept of Fatal Flaws (I may even work it up as a negative quality). Basically, a character's fatal flaw is some kind of weakness of personality or obsession that regularly trips the character up. Greed, gambling, women, a vengeful streak, or whatever. Something that 90% of the time over rides the character's common sense and compels them to act in a certain way.

Myself either, honestly. I try to avoid situations where players are just screwed. Fatal flaws, on the other hand, are an interesting idea. Could even tie them into Edge rather than making it something worth BP. Edge is given when you glitch big and so on already. Could toss an edge if a player screws themself over with their 'fatal flaw'. Fatal flaws are more noir to my mind, too. While some noir detectives 'couldn't catch a break', usually they were hit by their own flaws more than anything else.

The more I think about it just now, the more I'm wondering if the detective mystery genre might be more what I'm looking for. Maybe a conspiracy... Hmm.

With a world like Shadowrun, this could work really well. Say a group of neighborhood dudes who take care of their neighborhood notice weird deaths. It turns out a corp is testing something in the area, and so on. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[ludomastro]

Eleint,

I could totally see SR used for Dresden. If you are looking to more accurately re-create the setting, you would have to have cyber and bio be demon pacts ... or something. Otherwise, you could adapt the Dresdenverse to take place in a later timeframe where cyber and bio are more common.

[Eleint]

I could totally see SR used for Dresden. If you are looking to more accurately re-create the setting, you would have to have cyber and bio be demon pacts ... or something. Otherwise, you could adapt the Dresdenverse to take place in a later timeframe where cyber and bio are more common.

I was more aiming for a magical noir feel, rather than specifically Dresden. I /like/ the SR world -- I just tend to like more variety than the focus on 'Shadowrunning Criminals' and would love to design a campaign around down-and-out-investigators, each with a weird past. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For Dresden itself, I'm waiting impatiently for Evil Hat's Dresden Files RPG. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Issmir]

I think Noir aspects work very well in SR, especially as the whole point of Shadorunners (or one of the whole points when I think of Shadowrunners, which is the same thing as far as I'm concerned) is the amorality of characters. Shadowrunners aren't a bunch of criminals - well, they aren't just a bunch of criminals - they are deniable assets, a necessary part of the smooth running of the 6th world. They are misfits, creative anomalies, thinking thugs, the grease on the machines... people at once above and below the level of corporate wage slaves.

And for all the crystalline promises of the big ten, the double As, the single As and the rest... No matter how bright and shining the future of Manhattan Inc and NeoTokyo... The corps need the Shadows, the Shadowrunners need the Corps, and the seedy underbelly of the 6th World is as much a part of it as the glittering wealth.

Pure Noir. Just throw in a blond chick with a destructive streak, a little post-war cynicism and a wheezing fat dude named after an African city and clothes in various shades of brown and you're all set.

Re-reading this post, I have come to realise that this cup of coffee has made my prose needlessly florid. Ah well.

[LamplightSlasher]

Pure Noir. Just throw in a blond chick with a destructive streak, a little post-war cynicism and a wheezing fat dude named after an African city and clothes in various shades of brown and you're all set.

Awesome....

[ludomastro]

I was more aiming for a magical noir feel, rather than specifically Dresden. I /like/ the SR world -- I just tend to like more variety than the focus on 'Shadowrunning Criminals' and would love to design a campaign around down-and-out-investigators, each with a weird past. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

For Dresden itself, I'm waiting impatiently for Evil Hat's Dresden Files RPG. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Ahh, now I get it. Sure, I can see that too. I came in late to a campaign in college (SR2) where they were working as a DocWagon HTR Team. Good times.

Now, as to Evil Hat, I too await the awesome that is Dresden powered by FATE.

[LamplightSlasher]

Ahh, now I get it. Sure, I can see that too. I came in late to a campaign in college (SR2) where they were working as a DocWagon HTR Team. Good times.

That is a GREAT campaign idea! I might havta steal that for my own guys.

[Snow_Fox]

Like DLN said, our games have always kept close to film noir wlements. beyond the ideas there I and the main GM and DLN's husband are all fans of the Robert Parker series 'Spenser' which are basically a pulp noir detective set in modern Boston.

One of the early modules also addressed this, when trying to get information the GM notes remind them that the players are supposed to use methods rather than just breaking fingers, because they are shadowrunners and not just thugs. A group of cometators track them down having broken fingers- because they are thugs.

another example that came out after we started but dovetailed nicely are the two series of Ghost in the Shell where there is some action and the occassional shoot up but also a lot of niformation work and subty.

[tanic5]

A few people in my group are currently working on a re-tooled sr4 game to work as a Dresden game. We got tired of waiting for the official one, and then after looking more into the Fate system we weren't that interested in playing it. I think that shadowrun rules work well as a Dresden game with very little changes. I took out the cyber and bionics and most of the spells stay the same. Many of the positives and negatives work as well.

Here are some of the changes we are making, and we would love to hear any comments or suggestions from other Dresden fans to help.

Magic:
1) Anyone that wants to takes the Magician trait gets it for free because it also comes with three levels of gremlins (to more match with the Dresdenverse view of magic and technology).
3) Astral sight has become "The Sight" and I have removed references to Astral, since it doesn't seem to be a part of the Dresdenverse.
4) Creating magic items we decided to make them cost more to create and less to bond. To make an item is 3xForce to make + $ + 1xForce to Bond

Faith
1)We added a Faith stat that is basically the magic stat, but I didn't like "Christian Tradition" from streets of magic, it didn't fit in to what we were trying to play so instead we have a positive quality of "Religion" that costs 15BP and gives you the a 1 in the Faith stat.
2) For faith-based magic we took the average drain for each of the schools (Combat = (F÷2)+2, Detection = (F÷2)+3, Health = (DamageValue)-2, Illusion = (F÷2)+1, and Manipulation = (F÷2)+2) and we think it would be up to the GM to increase or reduce the drain level (more simulating the act of faith the way it appears in the books).

Metatypes:
1) Changing metatypes to races.
2) Using the current Dwarf, Elf, Ork, Troll as the basis for Changelings
3) We are looking into using some of the rules from Runners Companion to create the other things that we are letting players play. (Lycanthropes, Pre-Red Vampire, Scions, and Werewolfs)

Technology:
1) We are having damage based of the ammunition used. Pistols: .22 = 2p, 9mm = 4p, .38 = 4p, .357 = 5p, .44 = 5p, .45 = 5p, .50 = 6p Rifle: .22 = 3p, .306 =9p, .50 = 10p, 5.56mm = 6p, 7.62mm = 9p, 10 guage buckshot/solid shot = 8p/9p, 12 guage buckshot/solid shot = 6p/7p
2) Using the cost from the books as a guideline we will have the cost of weapons be 3x what they are in the book unless they have the "Black Market Pipeline" positive quality.

I would be happy to clarify or discuss anything that I have mentioned in here.

[Kronk2]

I would also encourage every wizard to take the Aspected flaws. You may also need to realign the spell groups to make things more workable. Although "Fozare" could be Clout, it would be have an elemental subtype (wind) "Fuego" is Flamethrower, a Manipulation spell.

Would Faith and Magician be mutually exclusive? I see no reason for both. I also don't remember any of the Faith users in the book using combative magic.

Overall I think this would be a blast. I would love to see how you work the inertial ring.

[HappyDaze]

On the other hand, I like the concept of Fatal Flaws (I may even work it up as a negative quality). Basically, a character's fatal flaw is some kind of weakness of personality or obsession that regularly trips the character up. Greed, gambling, women, a vengeful streak, or whatever. Something that 90% of the time over rides the character's common sense and compels them to act in a certain way.

This is Poor Self-Control (Compulsive), a Quality from Runner's Companion. You select the type of compulsion and the severety of pursuing it. You can avoid submitting by way of a Composure test.

[Kronk2]

Also for a Dresdenesque tools feel, have them take geasa for implements. They don't need to be foci, fetishes maybe, but not foci. As Harry says he doesn't need them, they just make the job easier.

In other news. I like the fact that Harry is always against more things than he can understand, but it all comes together in the end. And how its not just him, even the higher ups are knees deep in the metaphorical dog crap. The only characters in the book that seem to have it all together are the Carpenters, and even they work really hard at it.