Reading Books While Astral Projecting, Can you do it? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Ayeohx]

In 4th edition can you read physical books and text from astral space? I believe that you could not read text; instead you'd only get emotions. Is this true for pictures? Street signs (text and iconography)?
And the second part to this question is if you can not read or see pictures, why not? Is the astral world really that featureless when it comes to displaying non-magical stuff?

[ICPiK]

I'm not to magically savvy with the new rules but all that non alive materials would show up as like cold stone would through thermal I think. Objects of intense art might radiate something but i believe only magically active, alive, or natural materials are able to be distinguished not to forget background count.

[Neraph]

If you manifest I'd say you can read just fine.

That aside, if you Assense something with enough hits, you'd get emotive auras from it.

[Daddy's Litt...]

I did not think you could read words from the astral-people cannot read street signs to see where they are. A hand wirtten note should give you the emotions of the reader but most books are mass produced by machines and would have no carry over from the author. Though a well loved book might have the emotions of the reader.

[DireRadiant]

Astral Sense <> Vision

It's a sixth sense, not one of the other five.

A blind person with astral sense can still astrally perceive.

While almost all the text and descriptions use vision as a basis for describing astral perception, that's only because vision is our most used and descriptive sense that we can use to describe other senses, it's not how astral perception actually is.

So you will be able to tell that there is a street sign, but not what's written on it. That there is a book, but not what's specifically written on it.

[darthmord]

Previous Editions basically said that you cannot read the text but you can pick up the emotive content of said text.

So if you were reading a hand-written note, say a passionate love letter, you'd pick up all the emotional qualities that went into that letter. But you'd not pick up any of the details of the text.

Think of things like so...

You have two realms... a cold, rigid logic world where everything is precise and mechanical.

The other realm is one of life, art, passions, and emotions.

The first one is the Physical Plane. The second one is the Astral Plane.

[Adarael]

I've always likened the effect to be like an epileptic who's had the halves of his brain bisected, or staring into the 'blind spot' in your vision:

You can tell there are words, or a design. You can tell they have meaning, and what the general emotive meaning is. You may even be aware that the emblem or words are familiar, but your brain is unable to tell you what you are seeing in any detailed sense. An epileptic who's had a bisecting operation basically now has a brain whose functions MUST be bridged by certain senses. For example, if you show them a roll of tape, they will say, "That's a roll of tape" and then they can draw it. But if they close their eyes, they CANNOT tell you what it is if they hold it in their left hand, though they can draw it with their right while they hold it. If they hold it in their right hand, they can tell you it's a roll of tape, but cannot draw it with their left.

[Dreadlord]

If you manifest I'd say you can read just fine.

That aside, if you Assense something with enough hits, you'd get emotive auras from it.

Um, manifesting GIVES you nothing. All it does is allow a living being to see a pale and ghostly image of you and be able to hear you. You are still on the astral plane, and still "see" as such. You have not changed anything about your perceptions at all.

Believe me, my game went through a whole argument on that, and I as GM had to freakin' PARSE my way through the whole text on manifesting. Unfortunately, my ruling broke my own tactic I screwed the players with (doh!) where I had a manifesting mage casting spells at them. Turns out I hosed them, since despite being manifested, my mage was still on the astral plane and unable to cast spells against Physical Plane targets. I had to do so much handwaving to get past that little error, and ended up with a very unsatisfactory retcon. DAMN! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

[Jaid]

just give him a great form guidance spirit... astral gateway is pretty evil if you use it right (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Well, use magical Ink and you are good to go O.o

[Snow_Fox]

. Though a well loved book might have the emotions of the reader.

Oh I like that! go to a person's private libary and see what books they're particularly attached to

[Method]

Previous editions made it pretty clear that you could not read on the astral. I don't think thats been formally changed, but it isn't clearly stated in any SR4 book thus far.

[WeaverMount]

Well, use magical Ink and you are good to go O.o

I can't tell if Stahlseele is joking or not, but he's totally right either way. In arsenal there is magically active ink made for the purpose of being legible on the the astral which strongly implies that regular ink is not legible.

[TheOOB]

I would personally say you couldn't read it unless the text was particularly large, to the point where you could see the difference from the astral shadow. That said you could pick up the emotional content of the book, especially if it is an emotional piece or has a lot of human interaction. You could tell if it was a dramatic epic or an instruction manual, but not any of the content. Kind of like how you can tell what two people are talking about, but you don't know the exact words.

[Degausser]

I know my GM never allowed it. One time we were sent a thumb of a hostage as proof that the bad guys had her (they were stupid kidnappers) and so I astrally followed the trail back to her (via astral projection). But I couldn't read where I was. I had to stop and ask a local free spirit (good thing it was friendly) which street I was on.

[wind_in_the_ston...]

Too bad they don't make street signs out of stamped steel any more.

If you could read braile, you'd be able to make it out from astral. That's a lost art too.

[Neraph]

Um, manifesting GIVES you nothing. All it does is allow a living being to see a pale and ghostly image of you and be able to hear you. You are still on the astral plane, and still "see" as such. You have not changed anything about your perceptions at all.

Ahem.

If a purely astral form... wishes to interact with the physical plane, she must manifest.

Edited. And also:

Manifesting characters and spirits, however, are vulnerable to mana-based effects on the physical plane.

So what does that mean? It means manifesting mages can freaking cast mana-based spells on targets on the physical plane. The window works both ways.

[Medicineman]

Previous editions made it pretty clear that you could not read on the astral. I don't think thats been formally changed, but it isn't clearly stated in any SR4 book thus far.

It hasn't been changed (AFAIK )

HougH!
Medicineman

[GreyBrother]

Ahem.

Edited. And also:

So what does that mean? It means manifesting mages can freaking cast mana-based spells on targets on the physical plane. The window works both ways.

Interact means talking and stuff. Not channeling mana to a plane where your astral form has no footholding. You are vulnerable to mana based effects because you channel a little bit of mana to create an illusion of yourself like those nifty mana illusions which don't interact with technical stuff.
It's not stated that it goes both ways and there is no implication that it should in your quoted text.

[Muspellsheimr]

Ahem.


Edited. And also:


So what does that mean? It means manifesting mages can freaking cast mana-based spells on targets on the physical plane. The window works both ways.

p. 184 Manifesting [4]
Change the second line to read:
“Manifesting is a psychic e ect that allows an astral form
to make itself visible and audible on the physical plane through
an act of will.�
Remove the second-to-last line (the one beginning with
“Manifesting characters and spirits, however 􀀀�)

[Demonseed Elite]

In the shortest answer possible to this question:

No.

[Stahlseele]

In the shortest answer possible to this question:

No.

Only of the Book was not written using magical Ink.

[Method]

Too bad they don't make street signs out of stamped steel any more.

If you could read braile, you'd be able to make it out from astral. That's a lost art too.

Interesting thought. My first inclination was to say "No you can't!!!" but the stamped steel part is the key.

[pbangarth]

How would stamping the steel make it legible? Are you saying that if it were stamped deeply enough, one could see the astral 'shadows' of the raised text?

[Method]

I think he was implying that raw stamped steel would still have something of an astral form, so it might be tangible...