Remake of Cyberlimb rules, Well, they work... Options

[The Jopp]

Here are mine and my GM's *final* version of the reworked rules for cyberlimbs. My GM and I found it odd that you could design a killing machine with a little bonelacing and strenght enhancement but it was impossible to do the same thing by going Borg so we remade the rules.

Cyberlimb cost can now be tailored to the characters attributes and more options have been given for Concealability ECU storage and the main difference is that prices have been cut by 25-50% A basic obvious cyberlimb with attributes of 4 will now cost 40.000,00.

Cybertorso gives a reduction in essence cost for cyberlimbs since a lot of the attachment and optical wiring to the brain goes straight through the torsos superstructure.

Cyberlimbs can now rival Titanium bonelaing when it comes to bonus in close combat (+2 to +4 to power.)

...

Yes, now your player can create monsters that can fill their entire bodies with secret gear, guns, wolkswagens, extra panther cannons and... :| Sorry about that. My point with THAT short little rant was that before people go through this and call me a munchkin or something equally vile remember that YOU as a GM can stop them from making their outrageous characters when you KNOW what they are up to.

The point with these rules are not to favor Munchkinism but to make more streamlined rules and the ability to create a fully cybered character that can go toe-to-toe with your AVERAGE streetsamurai.

...

Average human streetsamurai with Bonelacing and Muscle augmentation, Strength 6: 185000 + attribute cost. Base damage in close combat= 14M (Stun) OR 7M Physical.

Average Borg dude with basic unmodified cyberlimbs, cybertorso (not skull) with old rules= 500.000,00+. Essence: 0,5. Damage in close combat= 6M stun (base attribute of limb: 4 +2 for 2 cyberlimbs)

...

The above example is just ONE of my many, MANY aggravations with cyberlimbs.

Ok, read and flame away.

--- :cyber: :cyber: :cyber:

Revamped cyberlimb rules

Cyberlimb Bonuses & Penalties

Increased Resilience
The character gains the standard body modifications from M&M rules. The character gains no benefit against resisting the effect of diseases, poisons, gas or any other chemical. The body bonus is also added to the characters Overdamage display on the Condition monitor.

Dart guns & Capsule Rounds
Anyone trying to hit someone with dart or capsule rounds suffers a +1 TN modifier for every two cyberlimbs and a +2 for a cybertorso. The TN modifier is a separate TN from the actual attack test. The attack is made with a normal TN but at least one of those successes must be equal to or more than the modified TN for the drug to take effect, otherwise the dart/capsule hit a cyberlimb and will only do normal damage.

A Called Shot would follow the normal rules from M&M with the above exception. Even if one can find a gap in the armor one must still be able to find a piece of skin as well.

If the character becomes exposed to a chemical then its power will be raised by +1 for every two pieces of cyberlimbs the character has. A cybertorso would add another +2 to any drugs power.

Airborne chemicals
Airborne chemicals that work with a contact vector against skin would have a –1 to its power for every two cyberlimbs a character has, and another –2 for a cybertorso. Chemicals with an Inhalation vector would follow the normal rules and the power increased as in the above rules.

Localized Trauma
If a character has gotten a limb blown off and/or heavily damaged they have the option of removing it with a Complex Action. The pain receptors in the arm will (obviously) stop sending pain signals to the character’s brain since the limb is no longer connected to the body. However, the memory of the injury remains and is moved from physical to stun damage instead as the brain tries to cope with the false memory of pain. The trauma is very similar to people with ghost pains in amputated limbs.

Trauma dampener and/or pain editor is fully compatible with this rule.

Example: Billy’s right arm has been blown off just below the elbow by a burst of explosive rounds. Sparks fly from the jagged stump where it should have been and he grimaces in pain as he curls up behind cover. He grabs the arm at the shoulder and gives a mental command and the limb pops free from it socket, the sudden shock from the loss of pain is replaced by a nagging headache as the sensory feedback is disrupted and sends a flashback of misinformation to his brain.

Using a damaged limb
A character can connect any standard cyberlimb to his body but should be extra careful if the limb has taken damage since it might not behave the way they want it to.

Whenever a limb takes damage, note down the amount of boxes of physical damage the character took, the same amount will be taken by the limb (what limb is hit is, of course, decided by the GM). The character has, as mentioned above the choice of removing the limb and transfer the damage to Stun instead. If the character elects to reattach the limb after removing it he/she will have both the normal TN modifiers from wounds and an additional damage modifier from the limb since the damage has taken its toll on its motor functions.

Example: Billy examines the limb and realizes that he can remove the lower limb from the arm since only its attachment socket is left and attach his spare lower arm with a cyber SMG. With a few practiced movements he twists the arm into place on his shoulder and prepares to leap out of cover. He rolls out and get up on his knees and takes aim to cover his buddies.

Billy has taken a Moderate wound earlier in the fight and an additional Moderate wound that he transferred to Stun damage since he removed the damaged limb. He opens fire on the lurking enemies with his smartlinked cybergun SMG and has a TN of 8. He has a base TN of 4, Smartlink -2, Moderate wound +2, Moderate Stun +2, Damaged Limb (M) +2.

Increased Power
A character with one cyberlimb receives a +2 power bonus, and a Cybertorso+Cyberlimb gains a +4 power bonus (The Cybertorso includes extra servos and improved anchoring of the limb). Further limbs do not increase power.

Cyberlegs
A character with two Cyberlegs gains a +2 to their quickness when calculating movement.

Cyberskull
Cyberskulls ignore the effect of Called shots as long as they are called shots to the head (Called shot to the groin still raise the damage code.)

Armor
Armor is bought and installed as normal per SR3 rules.

Essence Reduction
A cyberlimb costs 15% less Essence if they are connected to a cybertorso. This rule does not apply to a Cyberskull. There is also an extra toll of -0,25 ECU for each limb on the torso due to the extra wiring but no Concealability loss.

Unnatural quickness due to excessive cyberware
A character with enhanced cyberlimb Quickness attribute above their natural value will not gain any Reaction bonuses from such attributes since it has no bearing on his actual reaction speed, only his actions when the threat has been identified. The character will not react to danger with the speed of his limbs but with the speed of his mind, eyes and the ability to perceive a threat.

If a character has a higher natural quickness Attribute than those of his artificial limbs then he would still use the natural attribute since the actual speed of the limbs has no bearing on the speed he perceives danger.

Installing the chrome

Modified ECU storage
A character can choose a model with less internal space for a reduction in price. For each ECU removed from the limb they would gain a -5% discount but they will also loose 1 point of Concealability for every 2 points of ECU removed since the limb will look less human and more of a ‘true’ artificial limb. The maximum discount a character can gain is 50% of the original price.

The same modification goes for Cyberskulls and Cybertorsos but there is a limit in how much ECU can be removed and still safely protect the internal organs. The maximum ECU that can be removed is 50% (round down) with the same restrictions and penalties that are applied to Cyberlimbs.

A character who begins the game with less than the average racial attributes of a limb will gain 0,5 ECU per point of attribute less than the limbs average value. A human with Strength of 2 and Quickness of 4 would gain 1 ECU to each limb.

Cyberlimb Pricelist
Cyberlimbs
Quickness x 5000
Strength x 5000

Cybertorso
75.000,00

Cyberskull
25.000,00

Synthetic Limbs
25% price increase

Alpha Grade
X2 price increase

Beta Grade
X4 price increase

Delta Grade
X8 price increase

Partial Cyberlimb
50% price reduction
-50% Essence cost

Cyberfoot / Hand
75% price reduction
-75% Essence cost

Modified ECU
5% price reduction
Per 1 ECU

Cyberlimb Edges & Flaws

Depending on the actual manufacturer of the Cyberlimb it might be some difference in performance and design.

Shoddy Design
-10% -1 Concealability

Cheap Internals
-10% -1 ECU*

Excellent Design
+10% +1 Concealability

Quality Internals
+10% +1 ECU*

*A partial limb has a +0,5/-0,5 ECU and a hand or foot has +/- 0,25. Cyberskull +/- 0,25 and Cybertorso +/- 1,0

Average Cyberlimb Statistics

Human / Elf
Strength 4 / Quickness 4

Dwarf / Orc
Strength 6 / Quickness 4

Troll
Strength 6 / Quickness 4

Essence Cost
Cybertorso: 1,50
Cyberskull: 0,50
Cyberlimb: 1,00

Improved Concealability VS Increased storage capacity
A character has the option of getting custom tailored cyberlimbs whenever they buy something with at least an Alpha grade rating. The character makes a choice of either making the limb more natural looking by streamlining the design or makes the choice of using a more effective internal structure of the limb, thus making more space for modifications.

Basic: No bonus
Alpha: Concealability +1 OR +10% ECU
Beta: Concealability +2 OR +20% ECU
Delta: Concealability +3 OR +30% ECU

Increasing Attributes
A character wishing to increase his cyberlimb strength/quickness above starting attributes before or after the game has begun must find a cyberdoc and pay a certain amount of yen based upon the strength he/she wishes to acquire. New characters only have to pay the usual improvement cost.

The cost is based upon the characters NEW strength / quickness value X5000 yen. So, if a character wants to improve his strength from say 4 to 6 it would cost (5*5000)+(6*5000)=(25000+30000)=55.000,00 per limb.

The character would also loose 0,5 ECU per attribute point on every limb above their racial modified limit. Stronger and quicker limbs above racial modified limit would also have a -1 to the limbs Concealability for every two attribute points (See “Attribute Limit” & “ECU calculation & Concealability modifiers”)

Cyberlimbs and Karma reduction
A character cannot increase his strength or quickness with karma if they do not have the muscles to train. If they have partial replacements or a single Cyberlimb then they would gain a -1 to karma costs per Cyberlimb for increasing their natural Strength and Quickness to a maximum of -4 for a full cybernetic replacement body.

Attribute Limit
A character can modify his strength and quickness up to his attribute maximum +4 and each point of modification above the racial modified limit (strength or quickness) costs 0,5 ECU. Above attribute maximum the cost is increased to 1 ECU per point.

Anything above the attribute maximum also cost an additional 0,10 ECU to the torso since the better (and bigger) servos and actuators takes more place than usual. If a character doesn’t have a cybertorso there will be an Essence cost of +0,10 per point and limb as well since the anchoring to the body must be reinforced.

A character with cyber arms and legs with 4 points of strength above attribute maximum would have to pay an additional Essence of +1,6. For a human that would be strength of 13 AND +2 to power in close combat. With a cybertorso they would have a basic damage of 13+4M Stun and no essence penalty, but the torso would loose 1,6 ECU due to a sturdier frame.

ECU calculation & Concealability modifiers

Attribute increase
-0,0 ECU

Attribute increase above racial modified limit
-0,5 ECU / -1 to Concealability per 2 point of modification.

Attribute increase above attribute maximum
-1,0 ECU per point and -0,10 ECU to Cybertorso per point.
-1 to Concealability per 2 points of modification.

Essence loss if no Cybertorso is available
-0,10 Essence/Attribute point.

See M&M for Implants and their ECU cost in M&M

See M&M for available ECU in cyberlimbs.

Higher Grade Limbs / Ware and ECU
Higher-grade ware in lower grade limbs take up less space, the opposite is also true about lower grade implants VS higher-grade limbs. Any kind of cyberware that takes up ECU in cyberlimbs have a 20% to 50% reduction or increase in storage size due to streamlining and ergonomic design.

Basic: +/- 0%
Alpha: +/- 20%
Beta: +/- 35%
Delta: +/- 50%

Example: A character using a Delta grade cyberlimb who wants a piece of standard cyberware that needs 4 ECU would now have to use 6 ECU since the limb and the ware doesn’t match in grade. If the opposite were done the character would have to pay 2 ECU since the limb is a standard limb and the ware is Delta and very compact.

Medical costs, repairs & complications

Medical Costs
Each limb adds 10% medical / repair costs and the torso adds +15%, the head has an additional +5%. The character must then pay an additional fee of +60% to the standard medical costs due to replacement parts, repairs etc if they had the full body replacement.

Shortened healing time
A character with heavy cyberlimb augmentation ha a lot shorter healing time since all they have to do is to replace mechanical parts and repair a cybernetic component compared to cloning new body parts and waiting for them to attach.
The character lowers his medical stay with 5% per limb and 10% for torso. For every two partial cyberlimbs a character has they reduce medical stay with 5%.

Cyberskulls
Cyberskulls gives a 5% price reduction to any operation that involves headware since there are easy to reach access ports and hatches.

--- :cyber: :cyber: :cyber:


Comments? Flames? Praises? :grinbig:

[Kagetenshi]

I disagree with two cyberlegs giving a bonus to movement when unmodified. That's what Kid Stealth legs are for; cyberlegs are heavy by their nature and usually aren't designed for sprinting, so if anything they'd move somewhat slower than an unmodified leg unless specifically intended as running legs. Also, I might give a +1 or +2 TN penalty in melee combat to cyberlimbs that didn't have augmented Strength and Quickness to reflect the fact that you're moving around a chunk of steel that's several times the mass of a natural limb.

~J

[kevyn668]

i like what you did. One question:

[Diesel]

I lowered the essence costs like that a while ago, but only for arms and legs, and only for standard arms and legs, not kid stealth legs or those arms from the cover of critters.

Anyway, synthetics are half essence, 75% cost, and obv are 40% essence (less nerve structure) and 60% cost. Partial reps follow this rule too. No one seems to mind.

[The Jopp]

[BitBasher]

[The Jopp]

[Rev]

I think that the partial cyberlimb essence / prices in m&m are better. A hand or foot is .35 and a lower leg or lower arm is .65 I beleive. This makes good sense actually. The hand/foot is the most complex part of the limb, and the part the person is most aware of. It makes sense that it would be more expensive and more essence to have it replaced.

I also notice that you do not seem to changed the way cyberlimb armor works at all, imho one of the worst things about it is how it costs 0.5 ECU to armor a leg, or a head, or a torso. There is also no reduction mentioned for a partial cyberlimb. It should be something different. I am thinking 10% of available ECU for head and arms, 5% for legs and torso, or something like that.

[The Jopp]

[Rev]

The problem isn't that 0.5 is too much it is that it doesnt make any sense that that remains constant across limbs of vastly different size.

For example an obvious cyberskull has 2 ECU, while the synthetic version has 1!
So an obvious cyberskull can have a grand total of four armor, split between ballistic and impact and a synthetic one can have two points.

[MachineProphet]

I, personally, follow the Cyberpunk 2020 school of thought on Cyberlimbs. At the present Essence and ECU cost, they, at least in my mind . . .

- Feel no pain. A person can stick his cyberlimb in an oven or a freezer or a vat of acid, and other than damage to the limb.
- Are practically damage-proof. A person with a cyberlimb can use them to parry sword blows, provided he has the skill. Cyberlimbs, when used properly as a shield, can provide an increase in difficulty for the shooter.
- Have immense power. Any action isolated to the limb (crushing, squeezing, kicking from the knee, punching from the elbow) is much, much stronger - I allow a base strength of 8 for such actions, with extra-legal benefits because the arm feels no pain (for example, not even an immensely strong troll could crush, say, a sea urchin in his grip because it would cut into his hand. A cyberlimb has no such problems).

The power of the arm.

[moosegod]

[Rev]

Uhu... and my point was that even an obvious cyberskull can only hold four points of armor. I think that is far too low. On the other hand a cyberleg can hold 40 points of armor. That seems too high.

In other words: why does it take exactly the same volume of armor to armor a head (which is pretty small) as it does to armor a leg (which is very large)?

Under sr2 this was much better. You could get a cyberskull, armor it up pretty good (5/5 I think is what I did once) and basically it was like wearing a helmet all the time (+1/+1 armor after inventing a rule for it).

In SR3 you cannot do that, and that sucks.

[Grey]

Are there rules for having limbs be partially synthetic?

Say you are a full borg, but you want your face, forearms, and hands to look normal. That way you can wear clothes and get away with everything else being obvious and take advantage of the extra ECU.

I guess you could just buy all the parts individually... just buy obvious upper arms, then buy synthetic forearms and hands.

[Diesel]

Bitbasher: Nothing canon, just I'm making the assumption, or perhaps enforcing my ruling that a slab of metal is going to give very little sensory input. A synthetic, I rule, has far more tactile feedback, and hence more connections.

Those are just my rules, you're completely right in your statement concerning the canon-ness of said rules.

[MachineProphet]

[BitBasher]

[Diesel]

Essentially the synthetic skin includes a layer of tactile sensors that cold hard steel/chrome/technetium/whatever just doesn't come standard with. The obvious ones can still feel, it's just limited in scope, like "Pressure: intense, forearm."

The whole thing came up a long time ago and we've just used it since then.

[Cray74]

[The Jopp]

LATEST ADD-ON!

Discovered a tiny thing that needed to be fixed.

> Replacement Cyberlimbs VS Essence & ECU
>
> If a character wants to replace his current cyberarm
> with another arm then he can do so under the following
> conditions.
>
> 1: The replacement limb must be of the same grade as
> the original one due to the design of the socket
> joints.
>
> 2: Partial limbs must be of the same attribute rating
> as the main limb.
>
> 3: If there are an ECU item that takes up more than
> 50% of the limbs ECU then it is no longer possible to
> separate any portion of the arm since the ware inside
> is now an integral part of the limb.
>
> 4: ECU Equipment must be designated in one of three
> locations since it makes it easier to determine what
> cyberware is removed with the lower limb.
>
> 1: Upper Arm
> 2: Lower Arm
> 3: Hand
>
> Fingertip compartments would naturally be located in
> the hand and so would an Induction Pad unless a
> hardpoint has been mounted on the lower arm etc.
>
> Cyberlimb ECU
>
> Obvious Cyberlimb ECU locations
> Upper Cyberarm 4 ECU
> Partial Cyberarm 4 ECU
> Cyberhand 2 ECU
>
> Upper Cyberleg 9 ECU
> Lower Cyberleg 9 ECU
> Cyberfoot 2 ECU
>
> Synthetic Cyberlimb ECU location
> Upper Cyberarm 3 ECU
> Lower Cyberarm 3 ECU
> Cyberhand 1 ECU
>
> Upper Cyberleg 7 ECU
> Lower Cyberleg 7 ECU
> Cyberfoot 1 ECU
>
> A character with a lower limb cyberarm would have
> Lower Arm+Hand ECU (4+1)

Now, anyone who wants to remove a part of the arm should also be aware about the fact that some of his internal gear might be left at home in that arm he left in his apartment.

[The Jopp]

A simple solution for possible problems with Kid Stealth cyberlegs is to let them have the same cost as your regular limbs and gain the same bonus + any bonus from Kid Stealth version.

They will have 0 concealability and can only be obvious limbs. They can be clad with synthetic skin or in animal fur for the more extreme customer.

[Bölverk]

I've been working on my own set of house rules for cyberlimbs. They're not nearly as comprehensive as those given above, but I think they're a lot simpler while still being useful.

My goals for this set of rules are:
- Make basic cyberlimbs strongly price-competitive with transplants and clonal replacements.
- Make a clearer distinction between common cyber replacements (hands, legs) and the unusual or weird stuff (skulls, Kid Stealth legs)
- Make cyberlimb enhancement reasonably price-competitive and strongly Essence-competitive with full-body enhancements such as Muscle Replacement.
- Make cyberlimbs a useful tool for street samurai and wannabes.
- Make cyberlimbs make sense. :)

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

[Cray74]

[Bölverk]

[Cray74]