Adrenal Pump, Can we have a 'lite' version? Options

[BlueMax]

Let me place a disclaimer: This post is not asking about the biomechanics of the human body as per today's science. The intent is to pose a game balance question and discuss the game mechanics. Note that this is purely a thought experiment as my group plays RAW.


While building a character for our groups reset, I put Adrenal Pump on. Yes, its a liability. The character has a great number of things going for him and I think he can take the hit. What I am trying to figure out is, why is it such a great liability?


Can some of the benefits be taken away in exchange for some reduction of the stun damage? The player and I don't mind that he takes stun damage, its the passing out that pees in my coffee.

Advantages:
+R STR
+R AGR
+R REA (which will not help with INIT on most characters who would take it)

Disadvantages:
0.75xR Essence loss
Active at maximum once every 10 minutes.
Not always under user control.
D6® stun damage.

Compare to Muscle Replacement
Advantages
+R STR
+R AGR
cheap, order of magnitude cheaper

Disadvantages
1xR Essence loss


The Adrenal Pump is the clear loser. Now, hold on I understand the concept of "Then don't take it". People keep posting that space is a concern when making the game books. A concern I assume is on the production end, as I would be happy with a wider eye friendly layout and more art. Assuming space is a concern, why keep using 3/4 of a column to print a faulty or ineffective piece of gear?

I have thought of a few proposals on how to move Adrenal Pump to useful. I don't think it would be outrageous to move the stun from ®D6 to ®D6 - R. This is a minor change and allows a chance of no mechanical damage. The character could still act "drained" even if he took 0 boxes or stun.

I think replacing the Stun with Disorientation (inclusive)or Nausea, would produce fun color and still penalize the character. "Push till you puke". -- Hey it would even shorten the space used by referencing material instead of listing new rules.

Thoughts?

[crazyconscript]

I'm not sure on a fix, but i have always found the D6xR stun at the end the biggest turn off from ever building a character with an adrenal pump. At 2-3, you are quite likely to knock yourself out at the end of the duration, even if you have taken minimal stun over the course of a fight.
Maybe house-rule to D3xR stun damage could be a fix? Plus the disorientation you mentioned?

[paws2sky]

Making the Stun damage resistible would go a looooong way toward making the Adrenal Pump worthwhile. Even adding a mandatory Disorientation or Nausea period after the crash would be much, much better if you could resist some of the damage.

Alternatively, a fixed amount of unresisted Stun damage, maybe 3 per level of the pump, would still be preferable to 1d6*rating.

Something else that would make it MORE user friendly would be a chemical popper that suppressed the pump's activation. If I recall correctly, they had those back in the original version (as well as a chemical to automatically activate it).

-paws

[Jaid]

iirc, you can have a gland connected to a container that stores whatever said gland produces, right? and then have something such as an autoinjector that releases that stored substance as needed (or put it on claws, etc).

so, my proposal is that it's plausible to have an autoinjector that stores the adrenal gland's stuff, and releases it as needed. call 1 dose = X turns, and be done with it.

[BlueMax]

iirc, you can have a gland connected to a container that stores whatever said gland produces, right? and then have something such as an autoinjector that releases that stored substance as needed (or put it on claws, etc).

so, my proposal is that it's plausible to have an autoinjector that stores the adrenal gland's stuff, and releases it as needed. call 1 dose = X turns, and be done with it.

Would not such an injector system leave the realm of Bioware and move into cyber? The container in this case is likely a modified gland.
Would be awesome to have a cyber version with an artificial container and a controlled release. However, I would want to call it "The Juicer" and Palladium would get all persnickety.

BlueMax

[SpasticTeapot]

Don't they sell autoinjectors that can be mounted on a belt clip? Today? At Wallgreens? I seem to recall diabetics using them a lot.

Wire one to a biomonitor, and there you go.

[Stahlseele]

Pan-Editor, never again feel Stun?

[paws2sky]

Doesn't the Stun damage ignored by a pain editor still overflow into the Physical track?

-paws

[Stahlseele]

yep.

[Kev]

Pan-Editor, never again feel Stun?

And this is why the Adrenal Pump will ROCK. Turn on the Pain Editor, pop some MAO, and go fuckin' nuts!

[Stahlseele]

And then you die, suddenly, as soon as you go into overflow physical from stun going into overflow physical . . which will happen fast, if you go into overdrive . .
Basically, like driving a V16 with pure NOX . . one hell of a ride, but sure to kill the car.

[BlueMax]

And then you die, suddenly, as soon as you go into overflow physical from stun going into overflow physical . . which will happen fast, if you go into overdrive . .
Basically, like driving a V16 with pure NOX . . one hell of a ride, but sure to kill the car.

So once again, why is this item included in this mechanical condition?

Oh , and I preferred a PAN editor. I even asked my Hacker about one.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I have indded seen the Adrenal Pump (Level 2 for that matter) actually kill characters in combat... Sucks to consistently roll on the high end of 10-12 turns of boost...

[CanRay]

I've almost killed one character with the Adrenal Boost. He took it as a "Mysterious Implant" flaw, and the original purchaser came back to get it.

With a very large knife.

[HappyDaze]

Why not just purchase synthesized super-adrenaline and shoot up with it like a drug (with or without an autoinjector)? It would be a hell of alot cheaper and would take up no Essence.

[Draco18s]

I think it's called Kamakazi.

[paws2sky]

Which brings us back to the question of why isn't the Adrenal Pump's crash handled like a drug crash, which a fixed amount of damage and a side effect?

Are there any drugs in Shadowrun that do variable damage when the user crashes?

-paws

[TBRMInsanity]

I'm actually surprise to hear that the Adrenal Pump's drain isn't resistible. I'm sure it was in previous editions (I will have to check). I would house rule that you can resist the drain (like a mage resists spell drain). I realize that you will still probably take stun damage from the pump but some biofreaks my have enough willpower to resist all the drain.

[The Jake]

Word.

Either make the stun resistable or otherwise reduce the degree of stun. The fourth ed change is functionally retarded.

- J.

[AngelisStorm]

And Adrenal Pumps are generally one of the better pieces of equipment to pick up in a roleplaying game. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

I of course agree. Reduce the stun damage. Make it enough to knock the character out (or kill him from overflow) if he takes a TON of damage/is careless in combat, but not enough to knock him out/kill him outright, by itself. -_- I like the Nausea add on; I think most people have experienced that sucky feeling (and vomiting) after pushing yourself to hard in athletics.

(Now I want to build a character who has the -modified- Adrenal Pump, and the internal autoinjector with combat drugs.)

[Shinobi Killfist]

Wow..
I had not read up on adrenal pump since the one character I have who would think of picking it up is playing in a time frame before bioware. Though we are just entering into the time where its available but hard to find. AT rating 3, you will take 18 boxes of damage eventually from it and probably about every 3 sessions. Unless I somehow got through the fight totally unscathed that's almost an insta kill.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It truly does suck...

I have seen characters die from the Rating 2 version... rolling 12 duration is both good (he saved the rest of the team) and bad (he died from the shock to his system after the fight)...

[CanRay]

Yep, I think I'll insist that anyone that buys one of these gets a Year's Membership with Doc Wagon or CrashCart.

"All right, I saved everyone's hoop!" *Duration Ends* "Gurk! Heart... Exploding... Ripping... Off... Wristband... Hope... Medics..." *Thud*

[Shinobi Killfist]

An easy fix would be an "antidote", that you inject it stops the adreniline from going and you only take stun for the combat turns it was on.

[Stahlseele]

What happens if you black out, before duration runs out?
Do you still get the whole drain, if you get 12 rounds of use out of the pump and black out after the 6nd round or something?