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#1
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Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,654 Joined: 29-October 06 Member No.: 9,731 ![]() |
So I'm sitting here reading Count Zero for the eleventh or twelfth time, and I'm at the bit where Finn and Lucas are talking about the loa in the matrix. Has anything like this ever shown up in Shadowrun? Are there rogue AIs, or maybe even actual spirits, in the Matrix?
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#2
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 24-July 08 From: Resonance Realms, behind the 2nd Star Member No.: 16,162 ![]() |
Paragons.
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#3
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Shooting Target ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 872 ![]() |
This has been touched on in numerous novels IIRC.
I vaguely remember something about a Ghost In The Machine called 'Alice' (Roxborough's ex wife?). It's been awhile now... - J. |
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#4
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 24-July 08 From: Resonance Realms, behind the 2nd Star Member No.: 16,162 ![]() |
Oh, i forgot that little something in Unwired, the actual "Ghosts in the Machine", AI's who believe themselves to be persons and the AI's themselves and Free Sprites. But Paragons are the thing that rang in my mind when i read "loa of the matrix"
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#5
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 386 Joined: 28-November 08 From: Germany Member No.: 16,638 ![]() |
There are AIs, sprites (native "electronic spirits"), actual downloaded metahuman consciousnesses (sp?), paragons, the resonance (whatever that is) etc.
Really, the electronic world is inhabited as much as the astral one. |
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#6
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,336 Joined: 24-February 08 From: Albuquerque, New Mexico Member No.: 15,706 ![]() |
Random Post # 11
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#7
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 16,889 ![]() |
AIs have been around in Shadowrun since 1st edition (Morgan and Mirage). The latest infos and rules for all weird Matrix phenomena are in Unwired (and partially in Emergence). These books feature AIs (further subdivided into different categories), free and wild Sprites and e-ghosts. Paragons are their own class and not even necessarily real entities (they are for technomancers what the mentor spirits are for mages). Spoiler Alert for William Gibson's Count Zero [ Spoiler ] The AI Deus, on the other hand, apparently managed to awaken technomancer-like powers in his subordinates, although these only worked within his home system. It might be conceivable that the new generation of AIs manages to perfect this process, learning how to give "normal" hackers a kind of spoofed access to the deep resonance. |
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#8
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 24-July 08 From: Resonance Realms, behind the 2nd Star Member No.: 16,162 ![]() |
Oh what Deus did was quite simple. Most of his followers with "otakulike" abilities just didn't realize that Deus himself "did the matrixstuff" for them. As for the new AIs to replicate that effect, just push their homenode past Response 10 and then read the stuff about creating UV Nodes in Unwired.
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#9
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 16,889 ![]() |
Most of his followers with "otakulike" abilities just didn't realize that Deus himself "did the matrixstuff" for them. I thought that this had never been really explained. What is your source? QUOTE As for the new AIs to replicate that effect, just push their homenode past Response 10 and then read the stuff about creating UV Nodes in Unwired. Heh, that's a pretty clever idea (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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#10
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 946 Joined: 16-September 05 From: London Member No.: 7,753 ![]() |
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#11
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 24-July 08 From: Resonance Realms, behind the 2nd Star Member No.: 16,162 ![]() |
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#12
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 ![]() |
Technically the book sources disagree with GreyBrother, though to be fair, it's never explained how AI-created otaku work. Source is page 136 of Matrix:
QUOTE Certain AI have been able to convert metahumans into otaku. How these AIs have managed this trick is unexplained--some believe these AIs actually tap into the Deep Resonance or manifest it, while others postulate that these AIs manage to duplicate the process independently. An otaku created by an AI has the same abilities as one created by the Deep Resonance. However, their abilities usually contain at least one serious flaw. In most cases, the otaku's abilities are lost when he works outside the AI's influence. For example, otaku created by the AI Deus within the Renraku Arcology's Matrix systems have proved unable to use their Channels and Complex Forms outside the arcology. So, it's not impossible that AI-created otaku work because the AI is shouldering some of the ability. |
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#13
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
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#14
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 24-July 08 From: Resonance Realms, behind the 2nd Star Member No.: 16,162 ![]() |
Demonseed Elite: Yeah, you know how that is. You get your Fanon right and spread it until it becomes official, though it was unintentional in my case. *g*
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#15
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 704 Joined: 20-November 06 From: The seemingly unknown area of land between Seattle and Idaho. Member No.: 9,910 ![]() |
Ghosts in the machine that I am aware of:
A.I.'s Pulsar, Goldenboy, Rufus, et al God-like A.I.'s: Deus, Mirage, Morgan/Megara(sp?) E-ghosts: Alex O' Keefe, Captain Chaos (maybe) Free Sprites: Taske Sprites Technomancers: Netcat et al Other: ? |
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#16
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 115 Joined: 5-March 09 From: Bay Area, CA Member No.: 16,942 ![]() |
Tanegar,
To answer your question, it depends on what you actually think the Loa are. SR does have e-Ghosts, some are people who's minds got caught in the matrix during the crash. There are AIs like Dues, Mirage, and Morgan. And there are people who believe them to be gods (like the Loa of Count Zero). There is a group that believe there is a Loa type being called the Deep Resonace. But in the end there aren't any In-Game rules or stats of any Loa-like character. [ Spoiler ]
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#17
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 105 Joined: 17-February 09 Member No.: 16,889 ![]() |
So, it's not impossible that AI-created otaku work because the AI is shouldering some of the ability. It just occured to me that Deus started out as the Arcology SCIRE, whose job was to lend an invisible hand to the matrix users. It would make perfect sense for the AI to continue its base function in this way. Deus has always been a provider of individualized assisted matrix access, even as creator of the Network. |
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#18
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 24-July 08 From: Resonance Realms, behind the 2nd Star Member No.: 16,162 ![]() |
I actually liked that 3rd Edition intermix between AIs and Otaku. SR4 can't give me that since nothing indicates that AIs have something to do with resonance. They are like mundane free spirits.
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#19
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 ![]() |
Demonseed Elite: Yeah, you know how that is. You get your Fanon right and spread it until it becomes official, though it was unintentional in my case. *g* That's basically how I started freelancing! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) QUOTE I actually liked that 3rd Edition intermix between AIs and Otaku. SR4 can't give me that since nothing indicates that AIs have something to do with resonance. They are like mundane free spirits. I'll admit I miss the old AIs a lot. Though there's only so long we could have gone on with them before it got ridiculous with god-AIs everywhere. The new AIs are more flexible with their lower power levels. I miss the otaku as an NPC plot device. I think one of the biggest SR3 mistakes that I was part of creating was providing player creation rules for otaku. They were a much better plot device than a character type. |
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#20
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panda! ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 ![]() |
I actually liked that 3rd Edition intermix between AIs and Otaku. SR4 can't give me that since nothing indicates that AIs have something to do with resonance. They are like mundane free spirits. some like the big bad unkillable squidhead-wannabe monster of the week, others prefer things to be killable, or just stop taking on futile jobs. elf, dragon and ia conspiracies have been scaled back to allow a more "street" kind of game. still, there is some interesting AI&TM activity in geneva of all places (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
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#21
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 704 Joined: 20-November 06 From: The seemingly unknown area of land between Seattle and Idaho. Member No.: 9,910 ![]() |
It just occured to me that Deus started out as the Arcology SCIRE, whose job was to lend an invisible hand to the matrix users. It would make perfect sense for the AI to continue its base function in this way. Deus has always been a provider of individualized assisted matrix access, even as creator of the Network. I thought that Deus began as the AEP (Arcology Expert Program). |
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#22
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 ![]() |
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#23
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 519 Joined: 27-August 02 From: Queensland Member No.: 3,180 ![]() |
I think one of the biggest SR3 mistakes that I was part of creating was providing player creation rules for otaku. They were a much better plot device than a character type. How many mistakes were you a part of? ;) The first otaku creation rules came in SR2 (VR2). |
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#24
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Neophyte Runner ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 2,078 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 67 ![]() |
How many mistakes were you a part of? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) The first otaku creation rules came in SR2 (VR2). True, I was only involved when it hit 3rd edition. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) |
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#25
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Moving Target ![]() ![]() Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 24-July 08 From: Resonance Realms, behind the 2nd Star Member No.: 16,162 ![]() |
I thought them awesome except the whole "must be in a tribe" thing ^^
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