 Docwagon, Discussion about Docwagon |
 Jan 14 2004, 09:46 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 14-January 04 Member No.: 5,982  |
I have been trying to find a location of the rules for Doc wagons resuscitation. According to the rules they will arrive in X number of minutes and perform a resuscitation on the patient. But, by the rules you would seem to have to be very lucky in order to not die before they get there.
Example: Roger finds himself in a firefight in a A rated security sector. Roger (body 3) has taken a light wound. He has docwagon super platinum account. Later in the fight he gets very unlucky and suddenly takes a deadly wound. By the rules he has exactly 8 rounds before he bleeds to death or 48 seconds. It is very unlikely they will arrive there before 2 to 3 minutes. Is there a set of rules for them bringing him back? |
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Jan 14 2004, 10:23 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
I'd go with the response rules presented in New Seattle for cops as a basis, personally.
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Jan 14 2004, 10:26 PM
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#3
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I'd say that the biomonitor on the Super-Platinum would trigger at Serious damage, even Moderate if you set it to.
~J |
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Jan 14 2004, 10:51 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 262 Joined: 26-February 02 From: A wreched hive of scum and villany. Member No.: 1,479 |
Thats if nobody, including Roger himself attempts first aid or tries to top the bleeding ect ect. |
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Jan 14 2004, 11:35 PM
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#5
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
The death rules are really designed with speed based combat in mind, not any sane sense of how long it actually takes to die.
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Jan 15 2004, 12:33 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
People die entirely too slow or far too quickly, yes. Certain things should make you dead, dead, dead. Other's should be a fun bit of bleeding out. Any ideas?
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Jan 15 2004, 12:53 AM
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#7
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,065 Joined: 16-January 03 From: Fayetteville, NC Member No.: 3,916 |
Tough decision, really. A hit to the femoral artery will get you dead PDQ.
On the flip side, a gut shot will keep you alive but unhappy for a while. A suggested houserule: After receiving a Deadly wound, roll Body + Willpower against the following TN#s. 5 minutes: TN 4 10 minutes: TN 6 15 minutes: TN 8 30 minutes: TN 10 60+ minutes: TN 12 (rolled every minute) Fail any of these rolls and your character is ghoul bait. Mind you, in this near-death moment, the character is doing nothing but expiring slowly and hoping a medic appears before the organleggers show up. -Siege |
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Jan 15 2004, 02:16 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 608 Joined: 9-July 02 From: California Member No.: 2,955 |
I'd give them one last action. Like setting off a bomb or something. Yeah.
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Jan 15 2004, 02:53 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 14-January 04 Member No.: 5,982 |
So, what your saying is its just pointless to actually buy docwagon contracts. If there is no way your going to survive anyways. Whats the point of it. Wasted money?
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Jan 15 2004, 03:04 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 714 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .nl Member No.: 116 |
No, of course not. If you're going to get shot to snot, then you will, but if you're smart, and manage to live for the two to four minutes it takes for one of the roving DocWagon teams to pick you up, then you'll be better off with a DocWagon contract then without.
Stop trying to squeeze into a game mechanic and see the validity of it in 2060. This isn't just for Shadowrunners who go into a corporate compound (where DocWagon can't even go anyway), guns blazing. This is for normal people getting knifed over a pair of shoes, or a synth-leather designer briefcase, or people getting trampled by the Kabuki Ronin along the I5 north, etc. |
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Jan 15 2004, 03:14 PM
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#11
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Which means if you are a good runner, you'll never need it anyways since you should outclass any common criminal you run across.
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Jan 15 2004, 03:29 PM
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#12
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
You can outclass someone and still take a bullet in the gut from them.
~J |
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Jan 15 2004, 03:35 PM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 14-January 04 Member No.: 5,982 |
The reason I asked is because the system states they do resuscitations. What do those mean? Is that applying first aid if they get there in time. Or using advanced medical equipment to bring someone back from the dead. Who has been dead for less then 8 minutes.
If you got in a car accident today and took a wound the put you unconscious there is still a pretty good chance you would survive. With "Life Flight" helicopters they can get you to a trauma center pretty quick. |
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Jan 15 2004, 03:50 PM
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#14
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Yes, but you should be able to put that bullet in him before he puts it in you. Or persuade him to put it in himself first. |
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Jan 15 2004, 03:53 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 12-August 03 From: Sulphur, Louisiana Member No.: 5,418 |
Hey, even the fastest gun bunny sometimes fudges an initiative roll, while that punk with a few levels of Boosted Reflexes rolls all 6's..
Before you know it, you've got a belly full of lead, and all the 'experience' and 'reputation' mean nothing when compared to a good medic/DocWagon team. |
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Jan 15 2004, 03:56 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Hamburg, Germany Member No.: 1,270 |
As a runner I wouldn't ever take a DocWagon contract anyways because:
1) I most likely won't have a SIN and I could bet their background checks are pretty thorough. 2) They WILL start asking questions or start handing me over to people I don't want to be handed over to when they find me loaded with weapons that clearly aren't for self defense and several bullets in my body lying somewhere I shouldn't be. 3) Most places I'll be lying around bleeding to death they couldn't or wouldn't get to anyways, like corporate territory, wilderness outside the city or even country, other countries... They would enter such areas if given permission but which corp or government in their right mind would give them permission to rescue an introduder? 4) Such a contract requires me to file a tissue sample. Am I crazy? Providing a ritual sample they could possibly give to anyone who is superior to them or pays enough money? 5) This wrist band serves as a homing beacon. Something says me this is not a good idea to always run around emitting radio waves when breaking into a corp facility. I may be paranoid, but better paranoig than dead. 6) The wrist bands emit an audible alarm when my life signs go critical. Might as well post a sign saying "Hey I'm not dead yet and a Doc Wagon team is heading my way. Please shoot me again and throw me into the Puget Sound!" I never really saw the point in getting a Doc Wagon contract as a runner. It's more of a thing for private eyes or social workers or so. People with a SIN who legaly run around in dangerous places. Or ordinary people who are just afraid to be assaulted and robbed in the streets. Of course a DW Contract might come in handy for a runner as well but only if he's not currently running. And there's no way of switching off the wristband without tugging along some kind of jamming device which would also interupt inter-team radio communication. just my 0.02$ |
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Jan 15 2004, 04:04 PM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 16-August 03 From: Northampton Member No.: 5,499 |
And that MrSandman just happens to be all of the reason why i did't have one.
I'm retired now you see :P |
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Jan 15 2004, 04:09 PM
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#18
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
And if you have a belly full of lead, you would do well to pray to God and hope He has mercy on your miserable soul than to pray that DocWagon reaches you in time. DocWagon is good only if the opposition isn't determined to making your being dead a permanent condition. Or if you have a lot of damage overflow boxes. |
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Jan 15 2004, 04:21 PM
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#19
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,012 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
If you take a lot of damage and then stumble out into the street, running through the city while bleeding your guts out, you can call DocWagon.
Also, this is a flavour choice on the part of the GM, but in a sufficiently dystopian world DocWagon isn't going to care much about the heavily-armed runner they just picked up, because they do it all the time and the fact that they do do it all the time means they don't get hit very often. Either that or you have a double-price "discretionary service" contract where little matters like how you got an undetonated LAW stuck in your torso or why you were carrying around Ares' latest prototype laser rifle get ignored. I say again, medical attention does not have to be for when you hit Deadly. I know that in real life if I ever take something that I judge to be a Serious wound I'll probably be seeking immediate medical attention. If the run was incomplete then yes, they'd go on and finish it, but if they're wandering through the streets of Tacoma with a big hole in them that just hasn't quite managed to incapacitate them, well, they've got a free ride to the hospital now. ~J |
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Jan 15 2004, 04:39 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 12-August 03 From: Sulphur, Louisiana Member No.: 5,418 |
Everyone here should read Blackjack's comments on the condition monitor, and how to accurately role play that out.. It matches my thoughts to the T, and is exactly how I run my games, or play my characters.
Also, DocWagon (as was noted above) rescues runners all the time. They could care less why you've been shot, or what you have on you.. There's a reason you pay them upwards of 50-100 thousand nuyen a year (plus additional fees).. So they can save your hoop.. Will DocWagon break into the Renraku Arcology to save you? No. Will they fly into the CFS? No. But, hey.. In a game with as high a death count as Shadowrun (which, by my estimates is exactly 10,000,000 times more lethal than D&D), you need every edge you can get.. That means if you've got 10,000+ nuyen laying around, might as well take out a DocWagon contract, and at least give yourself a slightly higher chance of surviving. And, personally, I would seek medical attention if I so much as got a light physical wound. |
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Jan 15 2004, 04:49 PM
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#21
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Even a cheap sin (rating 4, 4000Y) will pretty likely get you a doc wagon band.
No, they won't doc wagon is a AA and they are extraterritorial. They also have confidentiality clauses in their contract.
While the corp territory is absolutely true theres always a chance in the winderness that they could send an ariel unit, a la "flight for life". Rules are also provided for coverage in other cities or even foreign countries through which doc wagon maintains working relationships with the local equivalent. But since it's a AA multinational the key word is "multinational"... they are all over the place in other countries.
This would destoy the entire foundation of their business. They could never do this without losing pretty much every contract they have worth having.
Wrong, its a sealed band write cellular conection that ONLY activates when you break the seal on the band. Otherwise it is completely inter and broadcasts nothing.
There is no canon material that there is an audible anything. Furthermore, no bands automatically activate except platinum and super platinum, and all those do is automatically place a call a Doc Wagon when you take a modrate wound. These 2 contracts also cost 100k and 250k anually if I recall. No SR will be using either of those anyway.
There's a lot of misconceptions about docwagon. |
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Jan 15 2004, 04:53 PM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818 |
Actually, since much of their contracts are from other corps, they just might. Now, it's going to be hush-hush, of course, but it still might happen. And DocWagon isn't going to hold onto major murderers (or other people with lots of media attention). After all, who in their right mind would get a contract with someone that protects criminals. Note: Shadowrunners do not count as being in their right minds. |
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Jan 15 2004, 05:05 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 392 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Hamburg, Germany Member No.: 1,270 |
Nowhere do I find a passge about any privacy clauses in their contracts. I think, when Lone Star, Knight Errant or any other Law Inforcement firm or corporation with a believable suspicion will ask, they will provide the information and/or the tissue samples for astral tracking. I don't believe that they would stand in the way of an operation, making headlines as a corporation sheltering criminals and hindering the solving of crimes. And if you are suspected to be a criminal (i.e. lie around somewhere you shouldn't be with weapons you shouldn't own and possibly even some stolen good) they WILL ask questions. They will most likely also try to contact the owner of the place where they found you and make inquiries whether you belong to the staff or at least inform them. Yes, they could be assholes and use their extrateritoriality to give shelter for criminals (a.k.a. Shadowrunners) but they still get most of their customers from corps or normal families and they have a reputation to lose. So they will cooperate with the local law enforcements and other corps. At the very least they will wait until a case has been filed and a verdict been spoken as to whether you're guilty or not. And they will most likely provide the sample for astral tracking if you don't show up at the trial. |
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Jan 15 2004, 05:17 PM
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#24
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Have you read the expanded docwagon section out of the NAGTRL sourcebook?
Absolutely not. Doc Wagon is not a hospital, they are an extraterritorial multinational corporation the same ranking as Lone Star, being AA. They are one single step below the big 10. They are not a small corp that bends to demands they are one of the largest corps out there.
Heh, they are payed 10's or 100's of thousands of dollars a year to do their job and not ask questions. Why do you think archtypes have docwagon contracts instead of going to a hospital :P
Doc Wagon is NOT a public service organization, they are a megacorporation interested on the bottom line. They have absolutely zero responsibility to turn anyone over to law enforcement. Read NAGTRL, or a later sourcebook if the dogwagon section was reprinted, but I dont think it was. In the shadowtalk in that book SR's spoke positively of using docwagon for many of the reasons I have listed. |
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Jan 15 2004, 06:01 PM
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#25
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Yeah, I'd have to agree with BitBasher. Think of it from the other side, your local CEO engaged in white collar crimes pretty regularly. There's no telling what kind of stuff he might have on him if he's ambushed by his enemies. Stolen data, cash, illegal substances... who knows. Nor is he going to trust a corporation with a material link if he has the slightest concern as to what's going to happen to it. It wouldn't make sense for Docwagon to make a big fuss about its clients, because the best clients are going to be brought in with illegal stuff in unusual circumstances and won't like letting their DNA wander just anywhere. He's not going to let his employees get it if there's ever any chance of their being involved with illegal stuff either (and we are talking about corps, not convents here). Even if BitBasher is wrong, I'd prefer to be under arrest than underground.
When it comes down to it though, it really depends on how your GM implements it. If your GM straps a glowing beacon to you and promises to turn you over to the cops after patching you up, it's probably a bum deal. If they actually try and help you and customize their services to the demands of the customer, it's $10k well spent. |
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