Looting, How do i curb it Options

[toturi]

CSI.

Just needs Knowledge skill - Counter CSI or something similar to screw that up.

In fact, the Covert Ops Protocol skill in Ghost Cartels should help too. Just a matter of who has more dice.

For GMs thinking of using things like Biometric Safety, maybe the various Security Design/Procedures/etc would help against that and should make sure someone in the facility has got that skill in the first place. When the runners kidnap/Mind Probe/Influence/pornomancer him to find out how to get into the facility, they could also get how to bypass such countermeasures too.

[Warlordtheft]

RAW = Rules As Written

Also related:
RAI = Rules As Intended

Also:
BBB=Big black book=SR4 Main Rule book

[The Jake]

Heck, depending on the group, just start throwing a big batch of dice behind the screen everytime they start looting. If they're not completely thick, one of them will probably metagame it out and suggest a change of plans. If not, well there's been plenty of suggestions here for applying negative reinforcement.

When I'm wearing my "Nice GM" hat, in these situations, I usually just stop what I'm doing, look the offending player dead in the eye and ask them "Are you sure?".

This is usually enough to stop the most absurd behaviour.

- J.

[Glyph]

Honestly, why is the PCs picking up some extra frickin' guns such a big, huge problem? I thought it would be about the PCs taking everything not nailed down, and carrying a saw, a spoon, and a beer cooler to harvest choice bits of cyberware from their foes.

Now, it's possible you've been making it too easy for them - not ever using RFID tags, ignoring encumbrance, letting them sell the guns too easily for too much, and giving them plenty of time to grab whatever they want. If that's the case, then following the common-sense solutions that others have put out here will greatly ameliorate the problem.

But seriously, while nabbing loot should not be effortless or risk-free, it's not really that big a deal if the runners grab a few extra weapons off of the guys they've geeked. They should occasionally be losing their own gear, or getting it damaged, so it balances out in the end.

[Christian Lafay]

If it's not nailed down or on fire it's fair game. If I can pry it loose it wasn't nailed down, if I can douse it then it wasn't on fire. And my character was stealing EVERY gun could he could to start his Rent-A-Gun business. The question is more what to do with the goods. You might just turn them into thieves instead of runners.

[Draco18s]

If it's not nailed down or on fire it's fair game.

I don't see why fire is an issue here...

[TBRMInsanity]

The only time I've ever had a "problem" with a player taking everything that wasn't nailed down was when I ran a campaign with a DND player and it was his first SR game. Actually it was the other players that told the guy he was an idiot to grab the "loot". It turned into an angry monkey sort of situation.

Angry Monkey Experiment:
A study done in the 60's had a room filled with monkeys, a lader with a sensor switch on it, food at the top of the lader, and the sensor switch hooked to cold water sprinklers that showered the entire room. The monkeys learned very quickly that if they touched the lader to get the food they got doused in cold water (hence the angry monkey part). After about a week of doing this they took one of the monkeys out and replaced it with a new monkey. It went straight for the food but was cut off by the others and beaten. Over time all the monkeys were replaced until none of the original monkeys were left, but still any time a new monkey tried to go for the food, it was cut off and beaten by the other monkeys (even though they didn't know why climbing the lader was bad).

[SpasticTeapot]

For GMs thinking of using things like Biometric Safety, maybe the various Security Design/Procedures/etc would help against that and should make sure someone in the facility has got that skill in the first place.

One problem you run into with biometrics on guns is that they're wired to tiny little computers. Tiny, little, hackable computers.

[Ayeohx]

Wow, I'm completely opposite. I encourage looting! "Heck yeah you can take that guys body armor. And his cyberarm looks expensive too!" Look, runs pay jack. Have you seen what pay they offer in the SR Missions modules? It was something like 4000 to 7000 nuyen. For days worth of very hazardous work. Screw that. The only way to make money is to grab loot (gear, cyberware, data, etc) and sell it.

Way back I had a player who regularly filled his truck with dead bodies to later be butchered for cyberware scavenging. Ah the good ol' days.

[Chrysalis]

I use the quote from Heat in is you have to be able to in 10 seconds walk out the door and never have to look back.

I think it is the same with the looting, if it is causing monkey trouble then you should not loot. However if there is no monkey trouble than looting is fine. Sometimes the only way you can get a gun through customs is to steal one there.

-Chrysalis

[TBRMInsanity]

Wow, I'm completely opposite. I encourage looting! "Heck yeah you can take that guys body armor. And his cyberarm looks expensive too!" Look, runs pay jack. Have you seen what pay they offer in the SR Missions modules? It was something like 4000 to 7000 nuyen. For days worth of very hazardous work. Screw that. The only way to make money is to grab loot (gear, cyberware, data, etc) and sell it.

Way back I had a player who regularly filled his truck with dead bodies to later be butchered for cyberware scavenging. Ah the good ol' days.

4-7K wow your GM is generous. I would be lucky to get a couple K for most of my runs.

[Draco18s]

Angry Monkey Experiment:

I've heard that before, though I was told it was a fire hose. *Shrug*

[SpasticTeapot]

4-7K wow your GM is generous. I would be lucky to get a couple K for most of my runs.

???

If you can start with $250k a year and make an average of $2k a run after expenses , and average two runs every three weeks, you're looking at $70k a year. After you include middle-class living expenses, this is not exactly a flashy lifestyle - and god forbid you're a rigger with his perpetual need for new vehicles ('cos the old ones went kablooey.)

The designs and configuration for an aftermarket car tuning company's Corvette upgrade represent easily a good $500,000 in R&D. You'd think that their competitors would pay $50,000 so that they could launch a slightly cheaper but identical product at exactly the same time.

[toturi]

4-7K wow your GM is generous. I would be lucky to get a couple K for most of my runs.

It depends. A couple of K per person every week is alright. 7k per person per week is generous. Me? It depends on the Johnson. 10k per person for a high risk job that can be completed in 1 week is not unheard of, 1k for a weekend's bodyguard job has been done before.

[Stahlseele]

4-7K wow your GM is generous. I would be lucky to get a couple K for most of my runs.

start stealing and selling cars.
one car should more or less equal one run.

[Draco18s]

start stealing and selling cars.
one car should more or less equal one run.

Quite. Even if you only get (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) 500 for it, that's still 2 cars a night to be more profitable than most of your runs.

[Stahlseele]

at a much lower risk.
and more opportunities too.

[CanRay]

And thus we return to the "Stealing Americars" discussion.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

If they're lucky, they'll pull in 10-15% of the 'face value' of a gun. For a 10lb gun, that generally means about $50 - and that's assuming they take the time and footwork to find a buyer for that price. If you aren't paying them enough that hauling a hundred pounds of guns for $500 while under fire seems like a good idea, you should consider upping how much you're paying. I fully expect PCs to steal firearms they don't have access to yet. But why they would stop to pick up ANOTHER Ares Predator is beyond me (and generally they don't - they literally have two dozen Ares Predators gathering dust in their safehouse, waiting for a buyer).

I will say though, I've also stopped accounting for standard ammunition. I assume they always have enough, because it's cheap, and a pain in the butt for me to account for. This reinforces the uselessness of picking up a fourteenth Ares Pred.

If you enforce proper selling rules, they'll still collect for a bit, but once they're sitting on literally a pile of hot evidence, they'll start rethinking things a little bit.

Well Put...

[Kingboy]

And thus we return to the "Stealing Americars" discussion.

Don't we have to update that to "Comet Boosting" these days? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Gotta admit it has a better ring to it...

[InfinityzeN]

Hey, I actually got all the other PCs involved in that now that I am playing. Of course, we're playing a group of street thugs and such forming a gang, so we don't really do normal runs. But we have been jacking the hell out of cars and bikes. And we're selling them all to a Mafia owned chopshop, which is taking the mobs cut before they pay us. Helps avoid problems don't cha know.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Hey, I actually got all the other PCs involved in that now that I am playing. Of course, we're playing a group of street thugs and such forming a gang, so we don't really do normal runs. But we have been jacking the hell out of cars and bikes. And we're selling them all to a Mafia owned chopshop, which is taking the mobs cut before they pay us. Helps avoid problems don't cha know.

playing as a part of a street gamg IS a lot of fun...

[InfinityzeN]

Yep. And the dice pools all seem so... tiny. Hell, my muscle Ork (he's no sammy, but trying) has 8 dice not counting specialization or smartlink. I think the only guy throwing more than 12 dice in any area is the Adept and he throws 15 dice for piloting his bike. Ether we start the combat (with massive amounts of full auto fire) or we run like hell if it is started by the other guys. Feels way different from the group of Sammys and Adepts who slaughter hoards in a couple rounds.

[CanRay]

Don't we have to update that to "Comet Boosting" these days? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

The Mercury Comet is the Ford Americar, just the Luxury Package for having the Mercury Name. Like the Lincoln Spawlcar is the ultimate version of the line. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Well, that's what I called the Lincolns, anyhow, and my group likes that.

So far, my group has a Customized Jaguar that they boosted from the Mickey Mouse SWAT Team (No, I'm not joking. They had the ears on their helmets and everything.).

When I start that campaign up again, and finish it, I might try a lower-powered campaign where the group is all that's surviving from a Gang, and they have to return to their position of power the long, hard way. Where starting out with "Comet Boosting" and "Jaguar Jackin'" is what you do before breakfast, to get money FOR breakfast. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

Put some "Punk" back into the game.

[ornot]

i find the biggest curb on looting is time.
Fencing is not a major issue with the absurd face in my group. Okay he's not exactly a pornomancer, but he's good enough to fence stuff reasonably fast. I do warn them that if they try to carry 4 or 5 longarms they'll begin to accrue penalties, not to mention the need to strip them of rfids and spyware in the smartgun...
Boosting cars is not as lucrative as all that. The market will dry up, law enforcement will crack down and you're still only making 500 nuyen split 5 ways per car.

But back to time... In a corp facility not only will everything be tagged, but the resources they can bring to bear should be able to destroy any running team, so in and out before that comes to pass should be the goal. Vs street gangs, not only are the gang unlikely to have much of value, but survivors may come back with friends and bigger guns, or better yet, said gang enjoys the patronage of a syndicate. Hence hanging about is not recommended.
An example from my game: the team had just knocked over a Vory organ legging operation, while they were loading the guards' guns, the organs and a dozen frozen embryos into their truck they came under rocket fire from Vory heavys and a bunch of their tame gangs. They still managed to make it out, but they didn't have time to strip everything, and the Vory are out for their blood.