[X] My Assistant

[ElFenrir]

Yeah, it's very easy for a reasonable-Body person to get solid Armor, with no 'Ware. You could do it like this, as well:

FFBA Lv. 2(4/1, counts as 2/0 for encumberance)
Armor Jacket(8/6)
PPP 0/2(Shin/Forearm Guards)

Total: 12/9 armor, and only counts as 10/8, so you're in the clear. It lacks the ability to tack on the extra PPP points with the Vitals protector, but has the added benefit of wearing the level 2 FFBA which is less obvious(since level 3 has the gloves and the hoodie. Though I suppose in the winter you can easily pass it off as your parka if you're outside, so no worries there. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )

[Psikerlord]

The armour stacking thing sounds a bit unbalanced, characters starting with 13 ballistic? Say what!? I seem to remember the securetech armour was a problem in earlier editions too. For very little money, with starting availability, and totally concealable - all characters will end up taking it to boost their effective armour by 2/4, even without a helmet. Add gel packs for 3/5. So starting armour jacket becomes 11/11. And that's before you start using the optional stacking rule? I agree with earlier posters - these sorts of combos = enemies not using guns anymore. Imo better to stick with the standard armour rules in the corebook, and either increase the availability of securetech to something like 18, or vetoing it all together.

[ElFenrir]

IMO, 13 ballistic is not that horrible.

Take a heavy pistol, load it with EX-EX rounds. -2 AP. So they have an effective 11.

That same heavy pistol is now doing 6P. 2 net successes stage this up to 8. Now, 8 is less than 11-but remember, stun damage is just as good as physical. Say they bring this to 4 with a nice defense roll(4 hits.) That's 4 boxes of stun, and that's a minus.

Alternate? Stick-n-shock. Uses half Impact. 11 impact, halved, even round up, is 6. Electric weapons do the same. Keep in mind that armor has a capacity-someone can't run around with infinite protection versus everything.

If anything, my experience with those with high Ballistic ratings can end up loading up their Stun box rather quickly. Recently we had someone get fully stunned out, and I think they were sporting around 12 Ballistic, if I recall. This happened in one round and the opposition had nothing more than heavy pistols.

Also, IMO, as a GM my job is not to try to kill the PCs on a rampage. People wanting the best armor they can wear is natural. Opponents can use it too, of course. Stacking an armor jacket, 2 pieces of PPP and a moderate level of FFBA is not twinking, in my eyes-it's playing it smart. If I were a runner, and I knew I might be shot at, I won't be showing up in nothing but an armor vest if I were to be on the front lines.

[Zen Shooter01]

Stun damage is not as good as physical when it's the PCs taking the damage. A PC is not going to be as afraid of damage when it's just stun. A PC who's unconscious instead of bleeding out isn't half as much trouble for his teammates, and in order for any PC to die, either the enemy will have to keep hosing him after he goes down, over which the players will cry "unfair!", or every PC will have to be knocked unconscious, so there's no one left to help.

And PCs are going to yell "unfair!" when the enemy starts turning up with magic, electrical weapons, and other methods to circumvent their 12 points of ballistic.

You wind up with firearms being all but obsolete, which sucks a lot of the cool factor right out of the game.

[Zaranthan]

And PCs munchkins are going to yell "unfair!" when the enemy starts turning up with magic, electrical weapons, and other methods to circumvent their 12 points of ballistic.

Fixed your typo there. Anyone who cries "unfair" when their weaknesses come up is doing just that: crying. Nobody is immune to everything, that's why you don't Run alone.

Now, if every single opponent is packing such countermeasures, they might have a point, but that's why GMing is hard fun.

[AllTheNothing]

as if the current pope was not bad enough...

I DO feel your pain chummer.

[Warlordtheft]

Should I state that obvious restriction on what you can wear? That is what ever lonestar will let you wear. I would think wearing enough armor to qualify as swat armor will eventually raise eyebrows (and a call to SWAT or a Rapid Response Team).

[Mordinvan]

Should I state that obvious restriction on what you can wear? That is what ever lonestar will let you wear. I would think wearing enough armor to qualify as swat armor will eventually raise eyebrows (and a call to SWAT or a Rapid Response Team).

Only if its obvious armor. If you look like a bike currior because you're sporting the ppp, and an urban explorer jump suit, with a concealed FFBA under it, what are they going to know/care?

[ElFenrir]

Well, I suppose at our table, a lot of times, the enemy doesn't shoot to kill unless the PCs are making it apparent they have to shoot to kill. In other words, I have them send back force in which force is given.

And IME, Stun damage DOES make people sweat just fine, but all tables are different, I suppose. The team was scared when our rigger went down from even Stun damage.

I'm not out to kill the PC's wantonly, I'm out so our table has fun playing the game. I mean, if the table has fun bleeding all over the place all the time, that's all well and good, but personally, I abide by the ''captured PCs can escape, which is a whole new adventure, escaped PCs can fight another day and a whole new adventure can open up from them trying to cover their old tracks, etc.'' I guess I just play the game differently. I just never understood why a game isn't a game unless body parts are rolling around on the floor and the party is holding their own entrails in. (In no way is this insulting other table's playstyles; it's just not our first personal choice. And yeah, this example is a bit extreme.)

THAT being said...

...I can tell when a player is *obviously* going against my good nature and just trying to uber-munchkin their armor to make the ultimate death machine. While I find armor ratings of 12-14 very reasonable, when they start carting around 25+ armor and acting like Captain Invincible, then I'm more likely to be a bit harsh. (In other words, when I see players taking my already generous nature at the table and STILL try to munchkin stuff out, I'm a bit less forgiving.)

Taking FFBA and an armor jacket with some PPP is just something any ''sane'' front-lines person would do if they could. Rolling around in a suit of bright green hardened armor with roller skates and 2 PAC's mounted on the arms isn't. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Also, 14 armor doesn't do much versus spells. A single mage can make a team sweat VERY easily; as can a couple of decent drones. Even though they might convert some of the drone's firearm damage, if the team isn't properly equipped, those drones will likely last a kind of long time.

[Falconer]

Quite frankly... I'm not a fan of the FFBA lvl3... it is for all practical purposes a full body condom and would stand out. Especially to anyone concerned about looking 'normal'.

FFBA lvl2 is about like one of those old times swimsuits w/ the shirt and shorts, which to me makes it much better pick for wearing under a wide assortment of garments.

FFBA lvl1 isn't even too bad, when you think you're getting 3 points of ballistic for only 1 point of encumbrance.

Overall, one of the reasons I like the FFBA is because it's almost necessary for low body characters like faces and some mages.
EG: 2bod
Synergist Business line, short jacket (2/2) + Pants (1/1). Now toss on level one FFBA lvl1, and you have a reasonable 6/3 armor. I'd draw the line at the PPP as all of them I'd think would be fairly obvious, excepting the cup.

Body 3... you'd see a lot just wearing the armor vest from the BBB. Now you can manage to tweak them up to 8'ish on the ballistic side.

In any case, not the greatest armor, but enough so that you're not boned when somene pulls a concealed light pistol (or even heavy pistol w/ 3 bod).

In any case, the steps to optomizing armor now seem to be.
Pick Base armor
Pick FFBA supplementary
Pick PPP + Helmet to round out the numbers and bring them up to max

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

FFBA is great for those moments when you need to function as the spec ops team, complete with helmet... at that point, the body condom is generally not noticeable, and makes a lot of sense... barring htat though, I would never use the Level 3 FFBA

[Dhaise]

Everyone's game is different, but in a world that's survived multiple global crashes, the apperance of magic, SURGING, new metatypes, virals that have devastated populations, gang violence unchecked, free spirits as a fact of life,drones skittering around everywhere, televises the desert wars, and has suffered a nigh silly amount of ecological abuse, the guy running around in his FFBA3 pervert suit is probably the least weird thing seen on the street.
I wouldn't advocate using it in 'high formal' social functions, but is it any more attention garnering to a passerby then a 3 foot green mohawk, kid stealth legs,or a tail?

[tsuyoshikentsu]

I always say the hood as a detachable component, similar to the gloves and booties. Hence, I kill two birds with one stone: you can look normal wearing it by not wearing the hood, and I can make a called shot if I'm REALLY having armor problems.