[X] My Assistant

[Shadowfox]

Anyone who is a fan of cyberpunk has seen Ghost In The Shell. Now clearly, the mechanics of Ghost In The Shell are much different than Shadowrun (almost to the point of some calling it post-cyberpunk, because of the lack of a grittier feel, although some have argued over this back and forth. The main point being you are seeing the world from an elite police force's POV.)

Has anybody used ideas from anything (the movie, the series) in your campaign at all, and how'd it turn out?

I know that all of my players (who are all formally DND players) found there love for cyberpunk through GITS.

[silva]

As a veteran 2nd and 3rd editions player that is only now coming to 4th ed, I think the SR world feels much more like Ghost in the Shell nowadays than, say, Sprawl Trilogy or Akira (what old editions felt, to me at least).

And btw, I find GitS awesome. Never watched the series though, just the movies.

[Shadowfox]

As a veteran 2nd and 3rd editions player that is only now coming to 4th ed, I think the SR world feels much more like Ghost in the Shell nowadays than, say, Sprawl Trilogy or Akira (what old editions felt, to me at least).

And btw, I find GitS awesome. Never watched the series though, just the movies.

Oh, you need to get Netflix or go to Surf The Channel Dot Com, or any other website that has online streaming and watch them. Me and my girlfriend binge watched the entire two seasons, and are completely obsessed.

[DoomFrog]

I have been a fan of SR since I was 10 and my friends and I played 2nd edition.

I haven't seen Ghost in the Shell, but I saw the second one, I really didn't like it. The story is kinda dull, the philosophy just wrong and self-contradictory.

Also I really don't like Japanese anime at all. The whole talking head thing is just boring.

Gibson started my interest in cyberpunk (though I read him after playing SR).

But that is just me. My point being that not everyone who likes SR will like Ghost in the Shell, or Gibson for that matter.

[silva]

I haven't seen Ghost in the Shell, but I saw the second one, I really didn't like it. The story is kinda dull, the philosophy just wrong and self-contradictory.

The second one is really weird. The first one is much better in my opinion. But, as you said, its perfectly possible for someone to like SR and dont like GitS.

One thing funny that happened to me: Ive met Gibson well after meeting SR. And I had a huge disapontiment with SR because I thought its setting was so original, and after reading Neuro I found SR cyberpunk aspect was a total copy from that book. I had a hobbie crisis. Just after some time I came back to liking Shadorun. Funny huh?

[DoomFrog]

I can see being disillusioned by reading Neuromancer.

Personally I felt having played SR helped me better understand the book. I mean in the first few scenes where Case is looking for a weapon, and Gibson is describing the Monofiliment whip.... I don't think I would have really got that without knowing the name from SR.

[WeaverMount]

I have been a fan of SR since I was 10 and my friends and I played 2nd edition.

I haven't seen Ghost in the Shell, but I saw the second one, I really didn't like it. The story is kinda dull, the philosophy just wrong and self-contradictory.

Also I really don't like Japanese anime at all. The whole talking head thing is just boring.

Gibson started my interest in cyberpunk (though I read him after playing SR).

But that is just me. My point being that not everyone who likes SR will like Ghost in the Shell, or Gibson for that matter.

I hear you on the movies. I actually think the TV show is the best GitS work. In the manga the major is a cocky jerk and vector of fan service, and Batao is kind of a lunk. I liked the movies a lot, but I'm a visual artist and can easily forgive the movie for all the valid points you raise.
The series though is well episodic. They come up with some cool cyber-punk set piece, character, technology, or situation and resolve it. It is full of that high resolution slice of life goodness that really makes cyber-punk.

[TheOOB]

I personally think the series are the best versions of ghost in the shell, and I actually like the original manga the least(When compared to the movies and the series).

Really, not much has to change to make a ghost in the shell style SR4 game. First, cyborgs are much more common with a little less insanity going on. Everyone has implanted commlinks, and the tachikoma's are just AI's using a smart tank as their home node. The biggest difference is the ability to ghost hack people, that is control someone's actions their their neural link up.

As for the cyborgs and internal links, I have used them in my SR games quite a bit. Full cyborgs are unusual, but not some super secret thing.

[Stahlseele]

Watch the damn series, if just for the Tachikoma ^^

[ornot]

I have been a fan of SR since I was 10 and my friends and I played 2nd edition.

I haven't seen Ghost in the Shell, but I saw the second one, I really didn't like it. The story is kinda dull, the philosophy just wrong and self-contradictory.

Also I really don't like Japanese anime at all. The whole talking head thing is just boring.

Gibson started my interest in cyberpunk (though I read him after playing SR).

But that is just me. My point being that not everyone who likes SR will like Ghost in the Shell, or Gibson for that matter.

The first GiTS, and the second are entirely different movies, and it is virtually imposible to pass any judgement on either based on watching the other. Personally I liked the seconds lush visuals, while the first has far more action, and arguably a more straightforward plot.

The series is another thing altogether, very slickly put together, well paced and structured, and develops the rest of Section 9 far more than either film. If you like sci-fi, and can put your dislike of japanime to one side, it's certainly worth a look. Tachikoma are awesome, although I imagine they would irritate some people.

Gibson's work is seminal, and was doubtless an inspiration to SR, although I don't think SR fits into the world of Neuromancer especially. The tech is used to facilitate the plot of the book, and no attempt is made to justify its existence.

I do think that these threads should bear in mind that anime, books, films and so on are all different media forms from roleplaying games. In a book or a TV show, the character's actions are all under the control of the writers, while in our game no such control is possible. Indeed, if a GM attempts to force player actions, the game is less enjoyable. This a pretty fundamental difference, and you will never be able to get the same story playing the game as you will in a book.

As for inspiration, one can draw that from many places, and GiTS is as good as any. I do get a little irritated when players make characters based on some character in a book or film, if only because their interpretation is seldom the same as mine, and it jars.

[Stahlseele]

Tachikoma are awesome, although I imagine they would irritate some people.

only people who are put off by adorably kyoot spider-tank-AI's ^^

[ornot]

Some people are just too Emo to appreciate them. Hard to believe I know.

[crazyconscript]

I've only ever watched the series of Ghost in the shell, and never the movies. Yes i do like it, but no i dont think i would ever use it for shadowrunning ideas. On the other hand, spider tanks are awesome!
I've never actually read Neuromancer, but it was dissapointing when i found out that shadowrun wasnt a completely original setting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

[MYST1C]

only people who are put off by adorably kyoot spider-tank-AI's ^^

Actually, the Tachikoma are the one reason my girlfriend is unable to watch even a single episode of GitS - as soon as these stupid ultra-high-pitched "kawai" voices sound (whoever would put that into paramilitary hardware?!) she has to leave the room.
I don't like it either but I'm able to ignore it...

[MYST1C]

I've never actually read Neuromancer, but it was dissapointing when i found out that shadowrun wasnt a completely original setting (IMG:style_emoticons/default/frown.gif)

When SR came around in 1989 the Cyberpunk genre (though not the name) had been around for ~10 years...
And SR wasn't even the first Cyberpunk-style RPG as Cyberpunk's first edition (2013) had already been published in 1988. The genre peaked in the late 80s/early 90s with a number of games* published in short succession - Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, CyberSpace, CyberHERO, GURPS Cyberpunk, etc.

* and novels, of course.

SR's cross-genre mixture of Cyberpunk and Fantasy was unique, though.

[hobgoblin]

and probably what have kept it going as the others have flatlined (or gone transhuman, not that SR is not heading that way itself). basically, they could move the focus back and forth between magic and tech as needed by the interest of the public at the time.

release a magic laden product, and if the sales slump, release a tech laden product.

[hobgoblin]

Actually, the Tachikoma are the one reason my girlfriend is unable to watch even a single episode of GitS - as soon as these stupid ultra-high-pitched "kawai" voices sound (whoever would put that into paramilitary hardware?!) she has to leave the room.
I don't like it either but I'm able to ignore it...

they have the neural capability of a kid, what voice would you give it? dirty harry's?

also, they works nicely as a contrast to the jaded human members.

nothing like having them come up with the excuse of a stomach ache when faced with anti-tank choppers (incidentally shaped as spider hunting wasps).

[Fix-it]

watch the series, and READ THE BOOKS ffs.

[crazyconscript]

When SR came around in 1989 the Cyberpunk genre (though not the name) had been around for ~10 years...
And SR wasn't even the first Cyberpunk-style RPG as Cyberpunk's first edition (2013) had already been published in 1988. The genre peaked in the late 80s/early 90s with a number of games* published in short succession - Cyberpunk, Shadowrun, CyberSpace, CyberHERO, GURPS Cyberpunk, etc.

* and novels, of course.

SR's cross-genre mixture of Cyberpunk and Fantasy was unique, though.

I know cyberpunk was around before i discovered shadowrun (heck, i'm not even a year older than shadowrun itself). It was just finding out that concepts like the street sam came almost direct from it that was dissapointing.

[Issmir]

Actually, the Tachikoma are the one reason my girlfriend is unable to watch even a single episode of GitS - as soon as these stupid ultra-high-pitched "kawai" voices sound (whoever would put that into paramilitary hardware?!) she has to leave the room.
I don't like it either but I'm able to ignore it...

I'm with your girlfriend here. Loved the movies, loved the series, loved the idea of autonomous weapon units coming to terms with sentience.... but the kawaii irritated the hell out of me. Just felt like the voice actors picked up the wrong script. I suspect that somewhere on the net a bunch of pokemon fans are wondering why there's a slew of hard-boiled, gritty and amoral violent characters going on about the Emergence.

To get back on topic a little... I was toying with an SR (based) game with the characters being part of a specialized HRT cop unit. GiTS would be of unparalleled help there - from the inter-departmental rivalries to the portrayal of high-cyber, low essence cops.

(As an expat brit, I find typing GITS very odd. It'd be like writing JERKS)

[Omar]

I like GitS, I like Shadowrun, but they are two VERY different settings.

That being said, I think some of the changes in 4th are pushing the game in that direction. It seems to have lost something of that original cyberpunk feel, to me anyway.

Personally, I would avoid trying to mix the two. Maybe use SR rules for a GitS game (I once used SR2nd ed to make a custom Resident Evil RPG), but GitS is just too... clean. Magic and Metahumanity also dont seem to fit well.

YMMV.

[Dikotana]

Take out the magical elements, tweak the flavor, and you have Ghost in the Shell.

Take out the magical elements, tweak the flavor very slightly, and you have Gibson. (Incidentally, the man rightly pegged SR as a bastardization of his work and fantasy. He didn't mind the cribbed ideas, but he seemed miffed about the elves. I think he'd find the Cyberpunk game or magic-free SR perfectly palatable.)

Take out the omnipresence of futuristic stuff, tweak the flavor, and you have Terminator meets Men in Black. Augmented secret agents hunt down aliens/dragons/HMHVV-infected.

As an aside, though, why is it so terrible that SR isn't all original? Sure, less props to the design team, but they put together a great system, a unique twist on cyberpunk (and a unique twist on urban fantasy), and if no one had done it you'd be wishing someone had made an RPG out of Neuromancer because the setting is cool.

[Adonidus]

Heh, it's kind of funny but I just threw it into the DVD player on a whim today. It was my first time watching it since I started up with Shadowrun and I could totally see some of the similarities and why people would think that. Then I found myself wondering what I could do with a character that could separate his fingers down 20 times (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Heath Robinson]

The first and most important thing you would need to do to approach Ghost in the Shell would be to reduce both monetary and essential costs of Cyberlimbs and customisation, as well as reducing the availability on some items. Then you create a full body replacement package. You might want to remove IP enhancements. I don't think the Major or Batou are acting all that much faster than other characters.

You want to add something like "humanish looks" to a copy of the Renraku Manservant, tear out the fluff about them not being dangerous and put a Fuzzy Logic in each and every one. This is the basis for your widespread humanlike drones. You also need to refluff and rename half the weapons.

[The Mack]

As an aside, though, why is it so terrible that SR isn't all original?

It isn't terrible at all.

It's a game, it exists as a recreational activity. All it really needs to do is be fun, cleanly designed and provide an in game environment that appeals it's player base.

I'm not the most knowledgeable person on RPGs, but pretty much all of the more famous games I can think of have been based on something else; books, movies, manga/comics, mythology. And those in turn often draw inspiration from other sources.