Intelligence services, The darker shadows of the sixth world Options

[Chrysalis]

Greets,

I was thinking on whether or not to post this or not, as I am running a campaign in Dumpshock.

However, I would like some input.

Tir Taingire intelligence agency I am running as being like the intelligence agency of Saudi Arabia. Mostly they are concerned with limiting the excesses of their princes abroad - or at least making sure that it does not make international headlines and making sure that internal security is maintained. Their primary interests are in industrial epsionage.

Britain I take it still has special branch? What other police and intelligence services operate in Britain? Has Britain been turned into some quasi Thatcherian nightmarish police state?

Is there further information on this or do I have to go back twenty years in roleplaying game history? In that case I would like facts and information and not vague page numbers from books that were out of print before I was born.

[The Jake]

SOTA:2064 covers all the key intelligence agencies in the Sixth World. It does a pretty decent writeup I thought.

- J.

[Mäx]

Here's an older topic about intelligence agencies

[nezumi]

Do keep in mind, while most governments will keep an intelligence office, they will rely heavily on corporations, since corps already gather intelligence for a myriad of reasons, and are already in the business of collating data to generate data points.

[Nath]

Tir Taingire intelligence agency I am running as being like the intelligence agency of Saudi Arabia. Mostly they are concerned with limiting the excesses of their princes abroad - or at least making sure that it does not make international headlines and making sure that internal security is maintained. Their primary interests are in industrial epsionage.

IMO, government-backed industrial espionnage is not a good idea in a world controlled by megacorps. Basically, megacorps can piss off other megacorps as long as there's no proof, because the only posible retaliation is a legal action. Governments can piss off other governments, even if there are proofs, because the only possible retaliation is war. If a government piss off a megacorp, or vice-versa, it opens a whole new world of economic, politic, legal and paralegal retaliations. Tir Tairngire is not a major economic hub (we're talking about Oregon). The megacorps can afford making an example of them.

BTW, according to Shadows of North America, in 2062, the official name for it was the Intelligence Secretariat, with Prince Jonathon Reed as "Operations Director".

Britain I take it still has special branch? What other police and intelligence services operate in Britain? Has Britain been turned into some quasi Thatcherian nightmarish police state?

Great Britain got past the Thatcherian nightmarish level a long time ago. The Ministry of Interior became the "Lord Protector Office" and is independent from the Prime Minister. Which allowed the first LP, Lord Marchment, to stay in office for more than 40 years. The Oversight Board of the Lord Protector Office "coordinates" MI-5, MI-6, some SAS missions and a bunch of other agencies, in addition to having its own "Oversight Office Operatives" (OOO). Basically, consider Thatcherian era security policy in Northern Ireland to apply in all of Great Britain (Children of Men also works as an inspiration).

[ICPiK]

I think the main reason that movie did so well was the skullshot of a major star 25 min into it. lol

[HappyDaze]

If a government piss off a megacorp, or vice-versa, it opens a whole new world of economic, politic, legal and paralegal retaliations.

And then you have those really tight bedfellows like Aztlan and Aztechnology just to create a thousand new shades of gray.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

And then you have those really tight bedfellows like Aztlan and Aztechnology just to create a thousand new shades of gray.

Gray is where it is at though...

[kzt]

IMO, government-backed industrial espionnage is not a good idea in a world controlled by megacorps. Basically, megacorps can piss off other megacorps as long as there's no proof, because the only posible retaliation is a legal action. Governments can piss off other governments, even if there are proofs, because the only possible retaliation is war. If a government piss off a megacorp, or vice-versa, it opens a whole new world of economic, politic, legal and paralegal retaliations.

Once you don't have legal recourse and have an issue with someone/something you will find other ways of solving it. Often using violence, but there are others. Having "road construction" prevent you from shipping product for two months, followed by a "water main leak", very aggressive enforcement of vehicle laws, unfortunate power outages, misplacing customs clearances, etc.

[martindv]

And then you have those really tight bedfellows like Aztlan and Aztechnology just to create a thousand new shades of gray.

... or Saudi Arabia and Global Sandstorm.

Or Tir Tairngire and Telestrian Industries. Or TT and Horizon. Or TT and Hestaby. Or TT and the Alexa Group Songbirds (which first appeared in Earthdawn as a clandestine service loyal to Queen Alachia). Or...

[Demonseed Elite]

Yeah, Shadowrun is a world of public-private partnerships in the intelligence services. Which isn't that much different than the world we live in today, where it's coming to light that terrorists were interrogated by private contractors hired by the CIA.

[Chrysalis]

So instead of intelligence agencies masquerading as an international corporations *cough* gazprom *cough*, corps masquerade as intelligence agencies?

Anyways, keep talking this is giving me... ideas.

[SincereAgape]

Tir Taingire intelligence agency I am running as being like the intelligence agency of Saudi Arabia. Mostly they are concerned with limiting the excesses of their princes abroad - or at least making sure that it does not make international headlines and making sure that internal security is maintained. Their primary interests are in industrial epsionage.

This is a fair assessment on the role of the Tir version of the CIA. But if you're talking about the Tir Ghosts, some of the older Shadowrun novels such as "Ragnarock" by Stephen Kenson or the Secrets of Power Trilogy by Robert N. Charrette added a medieval knights of the old round table spin to them. What fascinated me about the old Tir Taingire government was that it was part monarchy. You had the high prince and then the other princes, all vying for power and playing political chess games against each other ("Hellfire Club" esque). The Tir ghosts and military always had a nationalist pride to them which is a depleting concept in the 6th world. They were zealots in attitude, and fluid in combat. Very appealing to us romantic idealists.

[Method]

And let's not forget about the Seraphim. CATCo maybe gone, but it's still unclear what happened to the most extensive private intelligence network in the Sixth World.

[Chrysalis]

This is a fair assessment on the role of the Tir version of the CIA. But if you're talking about the Tir Ghosts, some of the older Shadowrun novels such as "Ragnarock" by Stephen Kenson or the Secrets of Power Trilogy by Robert N. Charrette added a medieval knights of the old round table spin to them. What fascinated me about the old Tir Taingire government was that it was part monarchy. You had the high prince and then the other princes, all vying for power and playing political chess games against each other ("Hellfire Club" esque). The Tir ghosts and military always had a nationalist pride to them which is a depleting concept in the 6th world. They were zealots in attitude, and fluid in combat. Very appealing to us romantic idealists.

Sounds very much like Saudi Arabia. Lots of princes vying for power under one ruler, an intelligence agency that is internally divided between the new caste of byzantine power politics and a nationalist agenda. The nationalists are of course the old caste, since they are not into hedonism and they are old. Age and treachery and all that.

[hobgoblin]

IMO, government-backed industrial espionnage is not a good idea in a world controlled by megacorps. Basically, megacorps can piss off other megacorps as long as there's no proof, because the only posible retaliation is a legal action.

in a world where megacorps own navies, i would not be so sure...

and then there is that corp court omega order, allowing all other corps to slap the offending corp silly...

[Nath]

in a world where megacorps own navies, i would not be so sure...

and then there is that corp court omega order, allowing all other corps to slap the offending corp silly...

In this context, "legal action" meant "bringing the matter to the Corporate Court", which is a prerequisite to getting an Omega Order. Hence "as long as there's no proof". And as far as leaving evidence goes, firing shells and cruise missiles from a thousands tons displacement gray hull carrying your flag, in a world where megacorps own spysats constellations, ain't a good idea.

The whole point of the Corporate Court is to keep the megacorporations in line and prevent them from going at war. More precisely, the whole point is for the seven to ten biggest megacorps to decide when all the others megacorps, including the six to nine other, can pass the line and go at war. A corp settling a dispute on its own is a blow to the Corporate Court's relevance.

[hobgoblin]

in other words, they work pretty much like the UN security council...

[BlueMax]

in other words, they work pretty much like the UN security council...

Work and the UN in the same sentence, you need sarcasm tags.

[Warlordtheft]

In this context, "legal action" meant "bringing the matter to the Corporate Court", which is a prerequisite to getting an Omega Order. Hence "as long as there's no proof". And as far as leaving evidence goes, firing shells and cruise missiles from a thousands tons displacement gray hull carrying your flag, in a world where megacorps own spysats constellations, ain't a good idea.

The whole point of the Corporate Court is to keep the megacorporations in line and prevent them from going at war. More precisely, the whole point is for the seven to ten biggest megacorps to decide when all the others megacorps, including the six to nine other, can pass the line and go at war. A corp settling a dispute on its own is a blow to the Corporate Court's relevance.

Yet Corps in SR do it all the time. That is why some runners ops are more sabotage oriented than snatch an grab the latest gizmo. What can get really interesting is when internal corp politics is involved.Example: Exec A at corp F hires runners to attack rival corp B, knowing full well the rival corp B will retaliate and attack the Exec's corp F. He'll conveniently subvert his internal corp F rival exec D, by giving corp B the paydata to really screw with Exec D's division.

End result, corp B losses some assets, runners get paid (though they could get hosed nine ways to sunday depending on how the Exec A plays it), Exec D's division gets hosed, exec D gets canned, and Exec A gets a promotion to salvage the former Exec D's division.

No corporate court involvement at all.

[hobgoblin]

Work and the UN in the same sentence, you need sarcasm tags.

heh, what can i say, i find it ironic that the biggest user of veto, outside of soviet russia, is USA...

as for sarcasm tag, would a (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif) suffice?

[martindv]

I find it funny how the premise to your basic datasteal or macguffin theft run is based around the corp hiring the runners already possessing sufficient intelligence to know that the data/item exists in the first place.

[Dhaise]

I find it funny how the premise to your basic datasteal or macguffin theft run is based around the corp hiring the runners already possessing sufficient intelligence to know that the data/item exists in the first place.

Why tip your hand that you've infiltrated Corp B when you can just hire a group of triggerhappy 'professionals' to steal what you want and blow the rest up?