Petition to Catalyst: Return to the Shadowland BBS format, Shadowtalk = good. No shadowtalk = bad. Options

[ornot]

I prefer having shadowtalkers with more defined personalities and areas of knowledge. The lines of shadowtalk previously were just throwaway comments and posters seemed quite likely to never show up again.
Now there is a definitive list allowing the growth of personalities, yet I don't think it's restricted sufficiently for shadowtalkers to become repetitive.
However the first thing i do with a new book is skip to the short fictions at the start of each chapter. I love those, and all i would ask is for them to have some semblance of continuity. Guess i'll just have to wait on the long fiction, or bug the writers round here for more of their work.

[PirateChef]

One of the things that caused the change, thematically speaking, is that the Captain is dead, and now Fastjack is handling the datafiles,and I think he's a lot more stern about who he lets post / what makes it through, whereas the old policy was to just chop the comments after a certain number, no matter what was actually being said (there were exceptions).

[Cain]

You know, the OP didn't once mention Shadowtalk in the post.

What he mentioned was style. There is a stylistic difference between the late 2nd-complete 3rd shadowposts and the SR4 ones. No matter which style you think is better, the fact is that there *is* a difference.

Personally, I take it on a case-by-case basis. I've found some of the SR4 shadowposts to be very interesting, and I've completely skipped others because they were a yawn. Ghost Cartels, for example, was so bad I developed a headache. It's very much up to the individual book and writer.

[Lindt]

Win some, loose some. Having met some of the freelancers, Ill refrain from my opinions on winners and loosers. Ok, Ill admit that I love the first chapter in Augmentation, as far as the fluff goes.

[CanRay]

Time marches on. Captain Chaos loved the multiple posters, "Information must be free", and all that. Even cried when Dunkie bit it, and saw to it that the First Dragon got his Last Will and Testiment posted for all to see despite all the groups that would have it discarded. (Groups that have DRAGONS for leaders!).

Well, Cap ain't here no more! It's up to FastJack, last of the Old Skool Runners in his grey mohawk and his 20th century Apple computer-connected CommLink, to spread the word about what's real, what's fake, and what the frag that thing was that clipped your extraction helo last week, and landed you in the middle of the Deepest, Darkest Barrens.

Here's a question for the Devs (Or Freelancers): What BP Cost would being on the JackPoint be? It looks like it'd be one drek hot Contact!

[PirateChef]

Here's a question for the Devs (Or Freelancers): What BP Cost would being on the JackPoint be? It looks like it'd be one drek hot Contact!

We had this come up the other day: What does it cost to have Jackpoint (or Shadowsea) as a contact? I know it's listed somewhere (or maybe i'm thinking of the cost for Shadowland in 3rd) but I can't seem to find it.

[Lindt]

I know you could take Shadowland as a contact in sr3. Sr4? Odds are pretty expensive. Very connected, but dosnt give a rats ass about you.

[eidolon]

We had this come up the other day: What does it cost to have Jackpoint (or Shadowsea) as a contact? I know it's listed somewhere (or maybe i'm thinking of the cost for Shadowland in 3rd) but I can't seem to find it.

The Virtual Contacts rules (Runner's Companion, p.129) are what you'll want to look at if you're going to use Jackpoint as a contact.

[Kingboy]

...I don't think it's restricted sufficiently for shadowtalkers to become repetitive.

With the possible exception of Clockwork, who I believe starts more posts with "Oh Cry me a river" than not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Dhaise]

Well, yeah, that was a wild and chaotic time. I remember writing a chapter and having to physically flip through other books for all of the random shadowtalk posters I'd use to make sure I wasn't using them in the wrong context. It was a time consuming and frustrating process. There was even an effort to build an Excel spreadsheet of all the shadowtalk posters in 3rd Edition, but it was like swimming upstream.

I definately don't want to sound condemning to the current crop of writers (or the guys who had to try making some sort of flowchart back in the day just to line up fluff text). I've definately been more satisfied overall with the creative efforts of 4+ then I have since the early days of 2nd edition. I just miss the more 'wide area net' where all bets are off and you never knew if some nobody was going to drop a huge metaplot hint, a VIP was going to make an appearance, or some regular was just going to pop off at the mouth for a few postings. Now it's basically like reading a guild's myspace;not everyone gets along but they work well enough for each other and there's no real reason for them to explain themselves etc. Times change, the systems change, and the shock of the new wears off; it's probably straining credibility to think any 'underground' place as widespread as Shadowland got back in the day would keep going in the same incarnation after revealing to the world the goings on of chicago, surviving a second crash and 20 years of observation by the big superpowers.

Cybermancy and the Neo Anarchists Guide to real life were probably my personal favorites for fiction, game mechanics, and shadowtalk in sync with each other,and cybermancy probably wouldn't have been as effective if they hadn't built hatchetmen up through a half dozen books or so. I liked that execution more then I enjoyed Haze's bout with tempo even though I foundGhost Cartels to be better written overall ,if that makes any sense.

[CanRay]

With the possible exception of Clockwork, who I believe starts more posts with "Oh Cry me a river" than not. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Yeah, what is it with him and all the hatin'? Snitchin' on the Girl just because she dates Toasters!

[Digital Heroin]

Bring back Digital Heroin... what? Too self-serving? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) The presence of a shadowtalk comment by an enigmatic man with the DH handle is still my biggest claim to geek fame. That seems a little sad... but not as sad as me statting him only after that... as an Adept Savant...

Honored still I remain. Confused as to how I earned said honor, but honored still.

[Demonseed Elite]

Cybermancy and the Neo Anarchists Guide to real life were probably my personal favorites for fiction, game mechanics, and shadowtalk in sync with each other,and cybermancy probably wouldn't have been as effective if they hadn't built hatchetmen up through a half dozen books or so. I liked that execution more then I enjoyed Haze's bout with tempo even though I foundGhost Cartels to be better written overall ,if that makes any sense.

Exactly, the cybermancy section was improved by the fact that Hatchetman had been build up through multiple books. That kind of building up didn't happen much in the previous editions, where 98% of the shadowtalk posters were one-offs or had no backstory at all. Hatchetman was a rare exception that ended up with a great storyline as a result. The plan in Fourth Edition, which is not 100% perfect, to be sure, is to build up all of the shadowtalk posters over the course of the books, so any of them could potentially end up with a story like Hatchetman's, where the reader would feel attached to them.

Haze's bout with Tempo doesn't have the impact of Hatchetman's conversion to a cyberzombie, for sure. But we don't yet know what Haze might experience down the line as a result of his actions. Ghost Cartels isn't the end of Haze's story.

EDIT: I will admit that the one thing I miss the most about the new format is seeing random fans in the Shadowtalk (like Digital Heroin mentions). But the writers do still have the ability to add guest Jackpoint posters to a given section, so you never know.

[Kingboy]

EDIT: I will admit that the one thing I miss the most about the new format is seeing random fans in the Shadowtalk (like Digital Heroin mentions). But the writers do still have the ability to add guest Jackpoint posters to a given section, so you never know.

Someone was asking in the last Developer Chat session (which was in-character) "How do I get quoted in the Shadowtalk?" or something to that effect. My reply was "Say something worth quoting". Last I heard the devs are wanting to do more in-character chats of that nature. Once the format shakes out a little bit and it becomes less about people trying to figure out IC methods of asking about upcoming products and release dates, maybe they will glean some guest posters from the DS regulars, if they provide something that adds to the product.

[Digital Heroin]

So I should refine the Digital Heroin persona more and use his info-hording and rumor-chasing as a means of slyly pitching ideas I've had for ages, eh....

[Malachi]

I'm really not sure what the OP means about 'bringing back shadowtalk... it's there. It's all over the place. Every rule book printed has shadowtalk. The location books are 95% in-character postings, complete with Shadowtalk. Emergence, Ghost Cartels - both full of shadowtalk and in-character postings (heck, could you get more in character than the first chapter of Ghost Cartels?).

In-character sourcebooks (not just the shadowtalk, but the text of the sourcebook itself) is the best thing about Shadowrun, IMO. It's what really sets it apart from other RPGs, and it makes the books more interesting to read.

[BishopMcQ]

I just got back from my FLGS, where I picked up a copy of Fields of Fire (yeah, yeah, behind the times, etc). Reading it made me realize that my favorite Shadowrun sourcebooks are the ones presented as posts on the Shadowland BBS: Tír na nÓg, Cybertechnology, Bug City, and now Fields of Fire.

There are sourcebooks which are written 100% IC (Ok, well 90% IC) just like Bug City and Tir na nÓg. Runner Havens, Corp Enclaves, and Feral Cities are all done in this style.

Personal accounts of life in the Sixth World, especially life as a runner or other operative make the books more fun, interesting, and useful. Matador's rundown of the merc mindset in the "Mercenary Operations" and "Basic Operations" sections of Fields of Fire offered more insight into the mind of a professional operative than any other SR book I have ever read.

This is where the opening chapters of books like Runner's Companion and the rulebooks come in. Runner's Companion for example has 2XL doing a treatment of smuggling similar to Matador's mercenary piece.

Rulebooks in the format of Street Magic and Arsenal are interesting in a mechanical way; they give me ideas for what I want my character to do. Shadowland-style books are interesting from both a mechanical and a role-playing perspective; they give me ideas for who I want my character to be. I humbly submit that both of these are equally important in Shadowrun, and therefore Catalyst should return to the Shadowland format for all future Shadowrun sourcebooks.

This piece has been addressed by plenty of others, but let me throw in my 2 cents. I think that the new rulebooks have a lot more mechanics in them than the books which you have mentioned, but the mechanics are balanced through several pages of fluff (written IC along a Shadowland style) at the beginning of every chapter.

The primary difference (for me) is that the IC and OOC sections are now very clearly delineated. You will see Nephrine post a big article about biodrones and then have the Jackpointers talk about their experiences and viewpoints on the process, then turn 10 pages and you have all the mechanics. In the mechanics section you can identify what they were talking about, without any of the inconsistencies of having a rule listed and then some random shadowtalk comment that undermines the rule. Shadowtalkers will be wrong sometimes. This could be that they are intentionally lying, or that they simply don't have enough of the truth to speak correctly.

[ornot]

Someone was asking in the last Developer Chat session (which was in-character) "How do I get quoted in the Shadowtalk?" or something to that effect. My reply was "Say something worth quoting". Last I heard the devs are wanting to do more in-character chats of that nature. Once the format shakes out a little bit and it becomes less about people trying to figure out IC methods of asking about upcoming products and release dates, maybe they will glean some guest posters from the DS regulars, if they provide something that adds to the product.

Time for me to refine a political fixer persona, and make it onto the ic chat. Are there any guidelines on allowable handles? I was thinking 'Senator' or something similar

[TypeRyder]

The primary difference (for me) is that the IC and OOC sections are now very clearly delineated. You will see Nephrine post a big article about biodrones and then have the Jackpointers talk about their experiences and viewpoints on the process, then turn 10 pages and you have all the mechanics. In the mechanics section you can identify what they were talking about, without any of the inconsistencies of having a rule listed and then some random shadowtalk comment that undermines the rule. Shadowtalkers will be wrong sometimes. This could be that they are intentionally lying, or that they simply don't have enough of the truth to speak correctly.

Yes - and I think this is one of the biggest advantages for SR sourcebooks - you have the fluff and you have the crunch each in its own part. If you want to read and get an ingame feeling - get the fluff, read the shadowtalk etc.
You just need a rule, a game mechanic? Just open up the appropriate game information and there you are.

I hate it when authors mix up ingame and outgame texts so you have to read through the hole text to get one piece of game mechanics information...