Attribute Maximums, Probably been asked a million times, but I can't seem to find it.. Options

[Phylos Fett]

Okay, the Maximum Body for a Human is 6(9) (I am using Body for the example; obviously, it could be any Attribute). A character has 6 Body, and some cyber. Some of the cyber adds to Body, for specific purposes only. Character can have only a maximum of 9 dice for Body for any given Dice Pool, even if some of the cyber adds dice to the pool for that purpose only, and would take the Body over 9, correct?

[pbangarth]

A character can have no more than the augmented maximum for any Attribute. Dice pool modifiers that are not direct increases to the Attribute can take the -pool- beyond this maximum. Also note that the -pool- is made up of the Attribute + Skill, and is often already beyond the augmented maximum Attribute.

[Phylos Fett]

A character can have no more than the augmented maximum for any Attribute. Dice pool modifiers that are not direct increases to the Attribute can take the -pool- beyond this maximum. Also note that the -pool- is made up of the Attribute + Skill, and is often already beyond the augmented maximum Attribute.

Cool - I was 99.99% sure this was the case - had someone trying to tell me that a bonus to Body for Knockdown wasn't a Body bonus (despite the fact that it is referred to as a bonus to Body), but rather extra dice for a Knockdown Test. I thought maybe there was an errata I'd missed or was just having a blonde moment...

[pbangarth]

Cool - I was 99.99% sure this was the case - had someone trying to tell me that a bonus to Body for Knockdown wasn't a Body bonus (despite the fact that it is referred to as a bonus to Body), but rather extra dice for a Knockdown Test. I thought maybe there was an errata I'd missed or was just having a blonde moment...

Well, unfortunately the bonuses to Attributes for specific purposes, rather than in general, have been treated as specific dice pool modifications, and have been argued as such in other threads. This is just one example of the fallout from loose control of terminology in the rule books. Your 'someone' is supported by a majority here in Dumpshock. I don't know if there is any official explanation of the terminology to support or contradict your 'someone'.

What would I do? I would go with specific means dice pool, general means Attribute increase, and keep the peace.

[Muspellsheimr]

There is no RAW support whatsoever for "Increase Body for [insert specific test here]" not being restricted by augmented maximums.

By RAW, Bone Density Augmentation & similar effects are increasing Body, not providing a dice pool modifier, & thus are restricted to augmented maximums.

[The Jake]

There is no RAW support whatsoever for "Increase Body for [insert specific test here]" not being restricted by augmented maximums.

By RAW, Bone Density Augmentation & similar effects are increasing Body, not providing a dice pool modifier, & thus are restricted to augmented maximums.

It only increases it for damage resistance tests, not permanently. Wouldn't that mean it isn't? Or are you saying because it didn't use the magic words "dice pool modifier" then it is subjected to augmented attribute maximums?

- J.

[Stahlseele]

Yes, that's what he is saying.

[ElFenrir]

Yes, RAW, it means that even Bone Density/Lacing goes by the maximum.

Now, would I do it? Not unless something increased the stat for *everything*. That's a houserule asap in my games.


Though we really don't bother with attribute maximums anyway since it takes a bit of effort to max them out anyhow.(For example, for a human to want that 11 Agility they'd have to max it at the start, AND get Toner 4, AND get a Suprathyroid.) Sure, they can do it with cyberlimbs, but they'd also need to replace at least two limbs and a torso to get any real benefit from this, and that begins to get rather expensive. (We rule that if you go over the augmented max with cyberlimbs, you must have a torso with the stat in question at said max as well.)

[Stahlseele]

And it is frigging impossible for Trolls to get their body to augmented maximum.
or strength.
and it gets increasingly worse with things like metagenetic improvement, exceptional attribute and genetic tweaking of the attribute . .

[pbangarth]

And it is frigging impossible for Trolls to get their body to augmented maximum.
or strength.
and it gets increasingly worse with things like metagenetic improvement, exceptional attribute and genetic tweaking of the attribute . .

Except for adepts.... eventually.