Booby Traps, Or, AAARGH its goana blow! Options

[Inane Imp]

It struck me thinking about the grenade thread, how exactly does one defend agaisnt booby traps.
Reading the both the Surprise rules and the Booby trap rules its not exactly clear. Personally, I'd tend to say that booby traps automatically surprise anybody who doesn't know their there, but immediately prior to a booby trap detonating (even for traps on, say, the other side of doors) I'd give all the characters a chance to notice it (a Perception test agaisnt a suitably high threshold based on exactly how hard to detect the trap would be) and if (and only if) the characters pass that test they get to defend, either straight REA or REA+Dodge if they give up the next combat turn going on Full Defense. With hits counting as additional distance away from the blast (as per Muspellheimer's post in the Grenade scatter thread).

Which raises a second question: do you assume the guy who activates the boody trap is at range 0 or do you make an assessment depending on the nature of the trap.

And a third, how do you deal with barriers (the second guy through the door when the door's booby trapped is probably partially shielded by the wall).

Actually, that reminds me of a story I heard, some mates who where on an IED course would spend their time setting up fake booby traps for each other to find, a standard one was rigging the toilet to blow when you flushed it. How would you stat that up?

Lets assume the bomber goes with fast and dirty, 1 KG of PE squished agaisnt the back of the face of the cistern, a short lengh of det cord attached to a Push detonator which is activated by the flusher. That's 10DV AP0 at -2DV/m and it cost a little over a thousand Nuyen, and it took an Explosives (10, 5 min) test to make. Which seems to suck. Thats 1 KG of a reasonably expensive for the same effect as a hand grenade. That seems broken (especially when you consider the fact that Mortar rounds do 15DV damage and cost 135 Nuyen... actually, buying a 20 round box of HE Mortar shells that fell off the back of a truck and spending an afternoon pulling them apart doesn't seem like a bad idea if your character's into things that go boom.)

Imp

Edit: For anybody who is interested an 81mm Frag/HE Mortar shell contains approx 0.95Kg of Explosive.

[nezumi]

First defense is perception, perhaps mixed with things like metal detectors or detect traps spells, if you have them. Second thing is perception, specifically of the general environment. If there's a chokepoint, a place where the floor is obscured through foliage or smoke, etc., you need to be more cautious of traps of any sort. If you're chasing down a known sniper hideout, or running through an unused facility secured by a security team, you should plan for traps. Third defense is have the troll go first.

[Dumori]

The simple fact is net hit can add to the tes tafter you have met the thershold and thus coudl do much more damage than 10DV. I dont have a quote on hand but there is one floting around.

[kzt]

The SR rules are kind of broken for explosives. You are better off piling up HE grenades then using bulk HE because you get far more bang by weight from SR grenades than from bulk explosives. It's just how it works.

Demolitions are actually pretty hard to do well in a game without adding a lot more complexity and math.

[eidolon]

Fixed title. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Dreadlord]

I thought explosives do NOT add net hits to DV anymore, since SR4A?

[Phylos Fett]

I thought that this was going to have something to do with breast implants and chemical glands (IMG:style_emoticons/default/silly.gif)

[Dumori]

I thought explosives do NOT add net hits to DV anymore, since SR4A?

That is thrown explosives when making them and setting them using demolitions they do as of Arsenal.

[Chrysalis]

You take honey comb and fill it with plastic explosives. A piece of duct tape and a pull pin detonator (personally I like grenade detonators). Flush the toilet and place The booby trap. As the handle moves up the device becomes armed. The next one to pull the handle will be in for a nasty surprise.

The problem with 1kg of explosives is that it is so large that the cistern never fills, instead it continues to run.

You can also use various electrical devices for electrical detonator: door openers, motion sensors, infrared sensors (fave with the IRA and the British Army back from the troubles).

The problem is that a professionally built booby trap will kill you before you notice it. Luckily the world is full of amateurs.

Most amateurs kill themselves by doing something stupid, like jiggling the handle to see if the explosive works. Or then the detonator gets wet and then it is found ten years later and the janitor is splashed across the tabloids.

[nezumi]

The next one to pull the handle will be in for a nasty surprise.

Except insofar that most of us flush the toilet as we're LEAVING the bathroom, and that grenade gives us a convenient five-second headstart. It will, however, assassinate our social lives, as people begin to wonder what you ATE that, your poo actually exploded the toilet.


I like filling a lightbulb with gasoline. Flip the switch and the light explodes. Probably won't kill you, but it's still a fantastic trick for April 1st.

Also, giving the target coupons for free clove cigarettes. Takes a little bit longer to work, but I guarantee, twenty years? Dead by cancer. Best part? The police will never even realize it's a homicide.

[Chrysalis]

Except insofar that most of us flush the toilet as we're LEAVING the bathroom, and that grenade gives us a convenient five-second headstart. It will, however, assassinate our social lives, as people begin to wonder what you ATE that, your poo actually exploded the toilet.


I like filling a lightbulb with gasoline. Flip the switch and the light explodes. Probably won't kill you, but it's still a fantastic trick for April 1st.

Also, giving the target coupons for free clove cigarettes. Takes a little bit longer to work, but I guarantee, twenty years? Dead by cancer. Best part? The police will never even realize it's a homicide.

Depends, a grenade has 3-5 second delay fuse, but that can also be fiddled with. If timing is an issue, another detonator can be substituted. You could even rig the toilet seat so that it detonates when his underwear's RFID is in proximity.

[Inane Imp]

As to the cistern running, it depends on exactly how the toilet is designed. Cheap water saving device in use in Australia is to add a brick to the cistern to displace some water reducing the size of the flush (although sometimes you do need to flush twice).

And again, the type of detonator you use would depend on the type of toilet (I was picturing one with a mechanical push button button flush). An alternative way would be to put a pressure sensitive sensor under the seat. When they sit down it explodes, when they lift the seat it explodes. Or a chemical sensor in the water designed to explode when the acidity increases. Or....

And your right, with a professionally designed booby trap you don't know its there. But, from a movie perspective the heroes usually get as last second chance to dive out of the way. Maybe they spot a couple of odd drops of water on the ground, just as they push the button. You rule that its been rigged with safety fuse (a ridiculously small length, but it gives maybe 0.5s reaction time) so they just have time to dive for the doorway (putting maybe 2 m between themselves and the blast).

My original question was meant to get an idea of how other GMs and players do it/have seen it done. IE as above (with a chance they might make their situation better) or just absolutely gritty in that the first warning they have that there was a booby trap is the explosion itself.

Imp

[kzt]

Booby traps are like snipers at 500 meters and JDAMS on the hideout. It's "rocks fall and you die". There isn't much that the players or the PCs can do about it, the PC is just dead, hence it's no fun.

Sometimes it makes sense and the PC has been taunting someone deadly AND leaving a trail of breadcrumbs, but I'd urge you to not do this without really thinking about a better approach.