Power Armor, Is it possible? Options

[Punkxronin]

Ok... I've been playing waaay to much Dawn of War and Fallout for my own good, but I've been thinking. Are there powered armor suits in SR? I don't see any logical reason as to why they wouldn't be... all the engineering issues preventing them from being in use (in large scale) now have been solved in SR's time line. Hell with Rigging one could simply plug it into your brain, and control it like a second skin, which is what the joy of power-armor is. Mechs require training to operate, a pilot has to practice to be good at flying, etc... but stick a grunt in some power armor and as long as he can walk before, he can walk in power armor.

So are there any examples of Powered Armor in cannon? If not do you think it's feasible for some thing like that to be constructed? I understand that much of what makes power armor interesting can be replicated with bio/cyberware... IE: Increased strength, agility, resistance to damage, improved mobility, etc... But Cyber and Bio require invasive surgery, which reduces your Essence. Wouldn't it be more cost-effective for military or a Corp to produce powered armor to do the same thing? After all it can be issued to their people, operated with minimal training, and then when they're no longer employed, or able to perform their duty, you simply take back said armor and issue to next guy? Plus with that idea in mind wouldn't it then be far superior to issue to magically inclined types? Your Mage is now protected, and can keep up with his augmented buddies, and still cast spells with out that nasty carvin' up his body and screwin' with his magic (He'd of course have to not use say a closed circuit/smart-link camera system or he couldn't cast spells, so he'd require nothing obstructing his vision which could lead to a vulnerability in defense... but he'd also be able to perform physically like your crazy combat-troll).

So has any one thought of this before? What's the consensus? Am I being insane with this idea, or should my engineering inclined toon be drafting some schematics and start making some armorer rolls?

[Falconer]

Yes, the military grade stuff in Arsenal can have a special set of upgrades placed in them.

One of them is Mobility (which effectively reduces the players body requirements to use it unhindered) functioning as power armor. There's also a strength augmentation there too. Gyromount and other goodies as well.

The heavy suit w/ helmet comes in at a whopping 18/16 rating.

In fact, IIRC, someone told me once that the battle armor units in battletech were taken from the sister shadowrun line.

[TeOdio]

You could essentially make an Anthroform vehicle as well using some of the rules out of Arsenal, but the military armor is nasty enough. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[Phylos Fett]

It is most certainly possible, just not in Shadowrun (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Stahlseele]

In fact, IIRC, someone told me once that the battle armor units in battletech were taken from the sister shadowrun line.

i call bullshit ono this one.
closest SR ever got to the BT elementals was the JYM-Suit in SR3.

[ornot]

I'd steer clear of trying to build game mechanics for an anthrosuit. It would be tough to balance with the mod rules presently in Arsenal.

I think the heavy armoured suit in Arsenal is a pretty good option to use. It can be tricked out with a whole bunch of stuff, but overall remains reasonably well balanced with everything else in the game.

[GreyBrother]

Huh... i always had the feeling that the MilSpec Armors had WAAAAY not enough capacity points for my uses. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[crazyconscript]

While the lighter armours might not be able to fit much with capacity, i have found that there is quite a lot you can cram into a heavy milspec suit (IMG:style_emoticons/default/love.gif)

[InfinityzeN]

If you want true Power Armor, go play 2020. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (couldn't resist)

The Milspec armor is a powered armor (servo assisted), compared to true power armor (servo movement). It is a level of degree. Powered Armor (or assisted armor) uses mostly your muscles, providing a couple points boost to strength. Power Armor has it's own strength rating that is used instead of the wearer. It does pass on some of the weight to them (mostly for feedback to assist in control), but doesn't actually need or use their strength.

[PirateChef]

In an SR3 campaign, we had a rigger who basically did what someone else suggested, build an anthroform walker in such a way that it was basically power armor. (Think Iron Man) He also built various attachments for it like a chassis he used as a jet pack.

[Neraph]

Dodge Guardian
Walker Mode
2 Full Mechanical Arms

That gives you like 10 vehicle armor which you can further upgrade to 16 (max), and still leaves slots open. If your GM is up to it, you could remove the weapon mount to free up more (it's not within the RAW to do it, but weapons can, and SR is supposed to be a fluid system anyways). It would also function as a Body 8/Strength 8 suit. Personally I'd suggest hybridizing some of the cyborg rules in order to speed up gameplay, but whatever.

[Larme]

I don't think power suits based on anthroform vehicles are a good idea in SR4. The Otomo has pretty pathetic Body, the only way to make it at all survivable is to pile on obvious armor and smart armor, and then you'd be setting off all kinds of alarms everywhere you went. I guess the point of power armor isn't to be subtle, but still. Even with maxed out armor, an otomo is not that hard to kill, you'd be a lot more dangerous as a tank troll. After all, trolls have a natural max body of 10, which is considerably more than the Otomo's 6. And while the Otomo can be extremely resilient if you max out its obvious armor, the troll can pack on armor without anyone being the wiser -- grab an armor jacket, plus a full body suit, plus bone lacing, plus dermal sheathing, plus cyberlimb armor... A lot of that is internal. He might look like a big intimidating troll, but people will still be surprised when their guns are useless against him. When they see the armored death suit battering down the door, they're not going to think twice, they're going to call in the anti-vehicle munitions, in which case your precious power suit is going to die.

Then of course you have the Tomino, which still only has a Body of 10, plus it costs 350k... My advice, if you want something big that can take and dish out lots of damage, buy a truck. People don't freak when they see a truck. Trucks can escape on the interstate by virtue of the fact that they're trucks, and there are going to be other trucks, and it's going to be hard to pick out the specific one you were chasing if it gives you the slip. Power suits though... They tend to stick out. And with a top speed of 15, they can't even outrun a moped when it's time to split. One zapper rocket is all it takes and it's the pen for you, power suit boy!

EDIT: Sorry, they have a top speed of 30 and 35 respectively. Still slower than a Dodge Scoot!

[Ryu]

But the weapons: Walker Combat Drone

[Stahlseele]

Not nearly as badass and dangerous and over the top like Walker: Texas Ranger
edit:
yes, yes, i know, that was pretty bad . . i'll take my coat in some minutes, when i am going home from work <.<

[Dhaise]

One of the old sr supplementals had non canon rules for milspec armor that was controlled through a modified VCR. It didn't exactly scream broken awesomeness, but it was a neat idea.

[Jaid]

(incidentally, with a body of 6 the otomo can get up to 18 armor before worn armor, for the record)

human-sized combat mecha are cheaper and more efficient, imo.

you start with the horseman. add on the advanced cargo module for free arms. replace the wheels with legs if you must, and armor it up to 12. other mods to taste, if any. increase response to at least 5 (6 is better, of course) and lots of sensors are probably a good idea. probably also a rigger cocoon.

now you take your pilot. give him a VCR (+2 to all actions, basically) and train him in gunnery (1 weapon skill covers sniping, anti-air missiles, grenade launchers, machineguns, lasers, riot-control water cannons, and so forth), pilot:anthroform(biped +2) (this covers the entire athletics skill group, pretty much, except it's one skill and completely disregards the physical attributes.). throw him into hotsim (requiring no cyberware whatsoever, not even a datajack) and you've got someone with +4 to most actions, and a reduced threshold on many tests. oh, and i suppose you should train them in dodge(ranged). no expensive cyber, easier training, doesn't matter what the physical attributes are...

it's kind of like giving wired reflexes 2, tricked-out cybereyes/cyberears, boosting all attributes by 4 (that's VCR + hotsim bonus), and at the end of their service you can discharge them... and they have no dangerous cyber in them that you have to worry about, and they aren't trained in the use of various hand-held deadly weapons. as line soldiers go, that isn't half-bad, imo. if you want to go nuts, you can get them up to 5 IPs, or give them the control rig booster nanites.

and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than cybering up someone to that point, and probably comparable to the gear costs of giving them equally tricked-out armor and weapons.

[TBRMInsanity]

I would say that Military grade armour from Arsenal fully qualifies as power armour (especially if you load it up with built in weapons and accessories that are common with all power armour). I guess a anthroform with a rigger cocoon would also work but if I really wanted a SR look and feel of power armour I would stick with the Mil-Spec Heavy or Medium armour and mod the crap out of it.

[Punkxronin]

I don't think power suits based on anthroform vehicles are a good idea in SR4. The Otomo has pretty pathetic Body, the only way to make it at all survivable is to pile on obvious armor and smart armor, and then you'd be setting off all kinds of alarms everywhere you went. I guess the point of power armor isn't to be subtle, but still. Even with maxed out armor, an otomo is not that hard to kill, you'd be a lot more dangerous as a tank troll.

All and all I agree with you but I want to bring up a few points. Not every one are tank-trolls... In fact they're pretty rare when you look at pure percentages of races through out the population, then further divide it by how many of those Trolls are actually geared up for front-line combat roles... Just cus you're green doesn't mean you've gotta be some armored walking death-bringer... some prefer to do normal things like work a lame 9-5 and collect their nuyen, etc. etc...

That being said, when you're a military or corp seeking that kind of raw power, in addition to hiring the big Troll who's happy being your gun-bunny, wouldn't it be advisable to have said powered armor to make your soft humie soldier into some thing that can rival that big Trollie?

And on the subtly point, I shall concede. But if you're sportin' power armor you're not going to be walking down the street casually... you put it on when you're expecting to get into a fire-fight. It would be impractical for quiet/stealth missions, but for that one where you gotta kick down the door, and bust some heads, it's ideal. So i don't see some human walking' down the street going to his favorite raman shop wearing his half ton power armor... that's just asking for Lone Star to show up and arrest your ass. Power armor isn't for every-day protection, there's enough of that kind of stuff floating around that's more practical and more legal.

I realize it would be "easier" to make a big augmented troll... But that's not the point of this idea.

[Stahlseele]

Add in either magical or technological invisibility, and you could stand on the corner of a street without much trouble. if there's a construction site, all the better. or road works. just get into their space, in some corner that's just being held away from the general public by a piece of rope or something, and you can stand there without someone bumping into you.
Or, you know, levitation. and invisibility. Nothing says:"you are going down!" like dropping an invisible power armored cybered/bioed up troll combat monster on someone ^^

[Stahlseele]

ignore my double post

[hobgoblin]

Add in either magical or technological invisibility, and you could stand on the corner of a street without much trouble. if there's a construction site, all the better. or road works. just get into their space, in some corner that's just being held away from the general public by a piece of rope or something, and you can stand there without someone bumping into you.
Or, you know, levitation. and invisibility. Nothing says:"you are going down!" like dropping an invisible power armored cybered/bioed up troll combat monster on someone ^^

meh, drop bear...

[Stahlseele]

i actually think i have a SR4 character somewhere, that basically scales buildings and then uses the falling / ramming damage rules to attack people by dropping on them . .

[Larme]

(incidentally, with a body of 6 the otomo can get up to 18 armor before worn armor, for the record)

Yeah I know. It just has to be normal armor, i.e. not concealed, i.e. your normally human-looking Otomo looks like some kind of terrifying monster machine. You probably wouldn't build a suit out of an otomo anyway though, since they are Avail 24 and thus not available at chargen even with Restricted Gear. That puts a huge damper on any plans, because chargen is the only time in your character's history that you'll have a huge enough pile of cash to do something like this, unless you play for a loooong time.

you start with the horseman. add on the advanced cargo module for free arms. replace the wheels with legs if you must, and armor it up to 12. other mods to taste, if any. increase response to at least 5 (6 is better, of course) and lots of sensors are probably a good idea. probably also a rigger cocoon.

now you take your pilot. give him a VCR (+2 to all actions, basically) and train him in gunnery (1 weapon skill covers sniping, anti-air missiles, grenade launchers, machineguns, lasers, riot-control water cannons, and so forth), pilot:anthroform(biped +2) (this covers the entire athletics skill group, pretty much, except it's one skill and completely disregards the physical attributes.). throw him into hotsim (requiring no cyberware whatsoever, not even a datajack) and you've got someone with +4 to most actions, and a reduced threshold on many tests. oh, and i suppose you should train them in dodge(ranged). no expensive cyber, easier training, doesn't matter what the physical attributes are...

it's kind of like giving wired reflexes 2, tricked-out cybereyes/cyberears, boosting all attributes by 4 (that's VCR + hotsim bonus), and at the end of their service you can discharge them... and they have no dangerous cyber in them that you have to worry about, and they aren't trained in the use of various hand-held deadly weapons. as line soldiers go, that isn't half-bad, imo. if you want to go nuts, you can get them up to 5 IPs, or give them the control rig booster nanites.

and it's a heck of a lot cheaper than cybering up someone to that point, and probably comparable to the gear costs of giving them equally tricked-out armor and weapons.

That's actually a pretty good idea. And it takes care of the main problem with existing anthroforms, namely that there is no room to get inside of them, and I don't think there's any official mod that adds passenger capacity to a drone. The best you could do would be, like a smuggling compartment? Maybe be a dwarf and cram yourself in there? Regardless, it would be a nice option for a rigger who wants to go on missions with the party instead of staying in the car. Though honestly, I'd prefer to have a death-bringing Steel Lynx by my side being remote controlled, rather than a somewhat less scary anthro suit.

All and all I agree with you but I want to bring up a few points. Not every one are tank-trolls... In fact they're pretty rare when you look at pure percentages of races through out the population, then further divide it by how many of those Trolls are actually geared up for front-line combat roles... Just cus you're green doesn't mean you've gotta be some armored walking death-bringer... some prefer to do normal things like work a lame 9-5 and collect their nuyen, etc. etc...

That being said, when you're a military or corp seeking that kind of raw power, in addition to hiring the big Troll who's happy being your gun-bunny, wouldn't it be advisable to have said powered armor to make your soft humie soldier into some thing that can rival that big Trollie?

I wasn't talking realism, more like character building strategy. I can't help but think about efficiency of build when someone proposes an idea like this. A tank troll is more useful for more things than an anthroform drone suit, on account of it not attracting much attention and still being very tough.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

I don't think power suits based on anthroform vehicles are a good idea in SR4. The Otomo has pretty pathetic Body, the only way to make it at all survivable is to pile on obvious armor and smart armor, and then you'd be setting off all kinds of alarms everywhere you went. I guess the point of power armor isn't to be subtle, but still. Even with maxed out armor, an otomo is not that hard to kill, you'd be a lot more dangerous as a tank troll. After all, trolls have a natural max body of 10, which is considerably more than the Otomo's 6. And while the Otomo can be extremely resilient if you max out its obvious armor, the troll can pack on armor without anyone being the wiser -- grab an armor jacket, plus a full body suit, plus bone lacing, plus dermal sheathing, plus cyberlimb armor... A lot of that is internal. He might look like a big intimidating troll, but people will still be surprised when their guns are useless against him. When they see the armored death suit battering down the door, they're not going to think twice, they're going to call in the anti-vehicle munitions, in which case your precious power suit is going to die.

Then of course you have the Tomino, which still only has a Body of 10, plus it costs 350k... My advice, if you want something big that can take and dish out lots of damage, buy a truck. People don't freak when they see a truck. Trucks can escape on the interstate by virtue of the fact that they're trucks, and there are going to be other trucks, and it's going to be hard to pick out the specific one you were chasing if it gives you the slip. Power suits though... They tend to stick out. And with a top speed of 15, they can't even outrun a moped when it's time to split. One zapper rocket is all it takes and it's the pen for you, power suit boy!

EDIT: Sorry, they have a top speed of 30 and 35 respectively. Still slower than a Dodge Scoot!

Just a question... Why could not the Otomo use concealed armor as an upgrade, and then wear the same longcoat or whatever that the Troll wears?... It is designed to look human, and even pass as human, according to the fluff... why would you not let it wear human armor?

EDIT: Sorry Jaid, Missed your reply to this statement...

[Draco18s]

Then of course you have the Tomino, which still only has a Body of 10, plus it costs 350k... [...] Power suits though... They tend to stick out. And with a top speed of 15, they can't even outrun a moped when it's time to split. One zapper rocket is all it takes and it's the pen for you, power suit boy!

Alpha Omega has a "light power armor" which has stats roughly equivalent to this. Though I made the joke tonight that because it's "Light Armor" that it's not illegal to wear in cities (unlike Medium and Heavy armor which gets you thrown in jail and killed on sight, respectively). Speed and damage resistance wise (along with other stats) it stacks up to be about the Tomino here. Faster than a human, some fly speed (about half its land speed), armor equivalency of Heavy Armor.

No built in guns, but it does have dexterous enough fingers to "use any weapon in the book."