Detecting Bioware Options

[Stormdrake]

So as Bioware is organic can sensors detect it like Cyberware? My assumption is not but can not find anything in the rules that say one way or another.

[Rasumichin]

No, bioware does not show up on MADs and cyberware scanners.
The tables for both types of sensors refer exclusively to cyberware.

If you want to spot bioware without a clinical examination, you need Assensing.
And even then, you need four net hits to spot it.

[InfinityzeN]

If you want to spot bioware without a clinical examination, you need Assensing.
And even then, you need four net hits to spot it.

Which is exactly why Bioware is much better for all your F and R class needs. That plus the lower Essence cost more then offsets the higher $ cost.

[Rasumichin]

Plus, speaking of Essence, it's better to get cyberware after chargen, as you may want to receive Adapsin treatment before putting those metallic bits into your body.

[Wanderer]

Which is exactly why Bioware is much better for all your F and R class needs. That plus the lower Essence cost more then offsets the higher $ cost.

Absolutely yes. F and R class bioware is pretty much detection-proof against anything less than extensive medical inspection. Be a bioware-only augmented beast and you can travel everywhere without fear of detection.

[Namelessjoe]

what about thermo stuff wouldent super thyroid or example raise your body heat

[Rasumichin]

what about thermo stuff wouldent super thyroid or example raise your body heat

Raised body temperature?
Is it a suprathyroid gland or the swine flu?
Who knows?

[TBRMInsanity]

Augmentation does state that you can use X-Ray scanners to find some bioware, and there are chemical scanners that can be used if you take a blood sample to detect others, but there isn't any mass screening technology that will directly detect who has bioware in a crowd. I would suspect that X-Ray and blood testing would be done at critical areas (secure government/mega-corp buildings, airports, spaceports, etc), and maybe at police stations once you have been brought in (to add more charges to your list for when your in court).

Keep in mind though that if a person has a low essence and no cyberware that they may have bioware and as such may warrant a blood test if your going through security.

[Wanderer]

Augmentation does state that you can use X-Ray scanners to find some bioware, and there are chemical scanners that can be used if you take a blood sample to detect others, but there isn't any mass screening technology that will directly detect who has bioware in a crowd. I would suspect that X-Ray and blood testing would be done at critical areas (secure government/mega-corp buildings, airports, spaceports, etc), and maybe at police stations once you have been brought in (to add more charges to your list for when your in court).

Such invasive body tests might be possible when a person is arrested, but you can forget that health-hazardous full-body X-ray scans or invasive blood tests are going to be performed as routine security checks to access public government or mega-corp buildings or much worse on paying travelers at airports or spaceports.

Keep in mind though that if a person has a low essence and no cyberware that they may have bioware and as such may warrant a blood test if your going through security.

Precious mage personnel is going to be used in far more profitable ways than performing aura checks on visitors or travelers, and low essence is otherwise invisible.

Face it, bioware is invisible for the routine security of an airport or equivalent, just like being a magician or adept.

[Stahlseele]

No, even more so.
magicians that are not capable of hiding their aura will stick out like a sore thumb to the magical security.
bioware? won't. especially since there's cosmetic applications and so most people might look a bit off . . .

[Rasumichin]

You don't need a mage to assense people.
A spirit can do so as well.
In fact, if a site is really security-conscious, it's not unlikely that they will shell out the nuyen for a long-term bound spirit assensing the crowd.
Of course, this still means that you stand a good chance to let your bioware go unnoticed.
Spirits powerful enough to reliably assense your exact type of bioware would most likely be reserved for AAA CEOs, the UCAS president, great dragons and comparable persons.

If you're really paranoid and worry about people calculating wether your Essence matches other Assensing results, you can also go for biocompatibility and adapsin and (probably higher-grade) perfectly legal implants which all show up on the SIN and use the saved Essence to load up on a selection of delta-grade illegal implants.

Moreover, keep in mind that a lot of useful implants are perfectly legal, from Cybereyes and -ears to Syntharcadiums.
In fact, a lot of those may be very widespread among the wealthier inhabitants of the sprawl.
E.g., i consider Sleep Regulators and Cerebral Boosters to be pretty much standard implants among execs in my game- i see no reason why someone with that kind of salary would not invest in those if working in an environment that applies that kind of pressure on workers.

So in my game, it certainly isn't "OMG that guy's got augmentations, he must be a professional criminal!"

[HappyDaze]

If you can have a dog that smells cancer, you can probably get one that smells the altered cells of bioware too. Sure it's not science fact, but neither is most SR augmentations.

[Rasumichin]

If you can have a dog that smells cancer, you can probably get one that smells the altered cells of bioware too. Sure it's not science fact, but neither is most SR augmentations.

I could imagine that, but -at least until Running Wild is published- ware-sniffing dogs are nowhere in the rules and i wouldn't want to add even more paranoia-inducing security methods to the game.

Fight back those nasty black ops tendencies wherever they raise their ugly head!

[TBRMInsanity]

Such invasive body tests might be possible when a person is arrested, but you can forget that health-hazardous full-body X-ray scans or invasive blood tests are going to be performed as routine security checks to access public government or mega-corp buildings or much worse on paying travelers at airports or spaceports.

You have obviously have not been through Heathrow Airport (London). Last time I was there I was ask if I wanted to skip the security line and have a full body x-ray scan instead. Your allowed to have up to 3-4 x-rays a year before it is considered unhealthy and it got me through security in like 10 secs.

And I said secure government/mega-corp buildings, not public ones.

Precious mage personnel is going to be used in far more profitable ways than performing aura checks on visitors or travelers, and low essence is otherwise invisible.

Face it, bioware is invisible for the routine security of an airport or equivalent, just like being a magician or adept.

3+ hits on an Assensing test will tell you if someone has lower essence, and it tells you if they have cyberware. Those two together will tell you if bioware is probable. 4+ hits and you know if they have bioware. If you have a wage-mage specialized in Assensing (which I imagine every star port and a lot of airports do have) then it isn't imposible that they can find you.

[Wanderer]

You have obviously have not been through Heathrow Airport (London). Last time I was there I was ask if I wanted to skip the security line and have a full body x-ray scan instead. Your allowed to have up to 3-4 x-rays a year before it is considered unhealthy and it got me through security in like 10 secs.

Giving the option is far different from making it mandatory, and enough health-conscious people are going to turn down the option that the augmented person shall be able to mix among that crowd. Heck, myself would rather prefer to spend some extra time and not to hazard my health to satisfy Big Brother paranoia. I'll take the normal security checks, thank you.

And I said secure government/mega-corp buildings, not public ones.

Then not an ariport, by definition.

3+ hits on an Assensing test will tell you if someone has lower essence, and it tells you if they have cyberware. Those two together will tell you if bioware is probable. 4+ hits and you know if they have bioware. If you have a wage-mage specialized in Assensing (which I imagine every star port and a lot of airports do have) then it isn't imposible that they can find you.

Airport wage mages are few enough, precious enough, and important enough not to waste their time (and get psychically burned out) performing Assessing tests on thousands of travelers each day.

[Muspellsheimr]

3+ hits on an Assensing test will tell you if someone has lower essence, and it tells you if they have cyberware. Those two together will tell you if bioware is probable. 4+ hits and you know if they have bioware. If you have a wage-mage specialized in Assensing (which I imagine every star port and a lot of airports do have) then it isn't imposible that they can find you.

Drug/BTL addictions, Vampiric victim, augmentation that has sense been removed...

There are numerous explanations for why someone has a lower-than-normal Essence, but no cybernetic installations. And although bioaugmentation may be the most probable, there are numerous legal, & common among higher-ups, bioware augmentations available - not including the previously mentioned cosmetic treatments.

There is also the fact that someone capable of reliably achieving +3 Hits on an Assensing test is rare & likely to be doing other things, combined with the fact that spirits capable of doing so are quite powerful, & likely to be doing other things...

Not to mention that the only way (by RAW) to detect bioaugmentation without magical assistance is through a blood test that takes a minimum of 15 minutes, if rushed (glitch on 1's & 2's), it is highly unlikely such augmentation will draw any attention outside of particularly high-security areas, where they still have a good chance of going unnoticed.

[TBRMInsanity]

The point I'm making is that if a surface scan reveals that someone has lower then normal essence then that person can be pulled aside and checked more throughly (with a blood test). I will agree that bioware is hard to detect but it isn't impossible and there are some situations where the costs are worth the added security of having them (like having a wage-mage at an airport).

Ultimately it is up to the GM to decide how they want to run their game. I'm just providing some ideas they can use to keep their players on their toes. The SR universe is one of paranoia, mega-corps, and freelance mercenaries. The players should always feel that they are just one step ahead of the law and that every action they preform can be used against them later in a court of law.

[Wanderer]

The point I'm making is that if a surface scan reveals that someone has lower then normal essence then that person can be pulled aside and checked more throughly (with a blood test).

Are you aware of how much a blood test is invasive and a violation of one's privacy ? And that you are effectively asking it to be performed without consent or a warrant on paying customers over a mere suspicion, since there are many legal and legitimate reasons why a person could be low in Essence, besides illegal bioware/geneware implants ? Why not body cavity searches at the discretion of airport security, then ? It is true that SR is supposed to be somewhat more dystopian than RL, but UCAS and CAS are still places with a Bill of Rights in the books and airports are not private corporate spaces where the megacoprs are allowed to go as fascist as they like.

I will agree that bioware is hard to detect but it isn't impossible

Few things are impossible when the resources of SR tech and magic are pooled.

and there are some situations where the costs are worth the added security of having them (like having a wage-mage at an airport).

Wage mages are a relatively scarce and precious resource that has far better taks to do than assessing the many *thousands* of travelers going through in an airport every day in the very low chance that any of them is carrying illegal bioware and is going to use it to make a scene during a flight.

Ultimately it is up to the GM to decide how they want to run their game. I'm just providing some ideas they can use to keep their players on their toes. The SR universe is one of paranoia, mega-corps, and freelance mercenaries. The players should always feel that they are just one step ahead of the law and that every action they preform can be used against them later in a court of law.

True, but the level of GM-enforced paranoia has to stay strictly within the bounds of reasonableness and plausibility (and fairness) or it crosses the border between entairtaining and annoying. Bioware is supposed to defy airport security the same way a high-level fake SIN is supposed to hold when a character goes shopping. Spare the thorough security checks when the characters are supposed to meet the megacorp or government top official or when they try to invade the secret research facility, not when they try to go through routine everyday activities. There are simply not enough resources or technology to make checks in-depth and non-invasive enough to the population to reveal illegal bioware or geneware in anything short of an arrest, for the same reason why good fake SINs are not defeated when a character goes shopping or Awakened characters are not randomly stopped off the street and asked their papers. First it is not plausible, second, it adds nothing to the game. Defeating hard security on a run is cool, being picked by Big Brother when the character is doing something as innocent as picking a flight indicates the GM is being a ass.

[Stahlseele]

if we were to use that pint of view, then it would be impossible to be a shadowrunner . . especially, if you are going by 4th ed fluff and rules . .

[HappyDaze]

Are you aware of how much a blood test is invasive and a violation of one's privacy?

Minimally invasive. All it takes is a finger stick that can be completed in seconds, or if you need a greater amount of blood, a draw that takes about a minute or two. Optionally, it might be possible to pull samples from an oral swab.

However, regardless of how it's done, it is quite a violation of privacy - but no more so than assensing someone. Assensing lets you know a great deal about someone, including their general heath and emotional state, just by staring really hard... and being Awakened.

[Wanderer]

Minimally invasive. All it takes is a finger stick that can be completed in seconds, or if you need a greater amount of blood, a draw that takes about a minute or two. Optionally, it might be possible to pull samples from an oral swab.

Nonetheless, it is leagues more invasive than making someone cross a MAD scanner.

However, regardless of how it's done, it is quite a violation of privacy - but no more so than assensing someone. Assensing lets you know a great deal about someone, including their general heath and emotional state, just by staring really hard... and being Awakened.

The big difference, Assensing can be done from afar, looking at something that is in plain view. It does not require to pick someone of a crowd and putting needles under their skin.

[TBRMInsanity]

If a character is forced to come up with a story on why they have bioware or why they have low essence if they are asked (insert appropriate charisma based check here), then I would be satisfied with letting the player go through that security check and the player still gets the rush of almost being caught.

Your right though, if I want to be a jerk I will give the player a full cavity search (keeping in mind I would only do something like that if the player did some thing REALLY stupid before hand).

[Wanderer]

and the player still gets the rush of almost being caught.

The point is, it is a rush if you are doing sometimes risky and impprtant, typically on a run, or trying to sneak into something or meet someone secretive and important. Otherwise, if it happens on something so routine as boarding a plane or going shopping, even if it is part of an ongoing story, it cannot but give the feeling that the universe (read: the GM) is being unreasonable and has it for the character, and that is only annoying, and leads you to think that the universe is a jerk.

[TBRMInsanity]

The point is, it is a rush if you are doing sometimes risky and impprtant, typically on a run, or trying to sneak into something or meet someone secretive and important. Otherwise, if it happens on something so routine as boarding a plane or going shopping, even if it is part of an ongoing story, it cannot but give the feeling that the universe (read: the GM) is being unreasonable and has it for the character, and that is only annoying, and leads you to think that the universe is a jerk.

Man would you hate my runs then. I consider myself fair (I will always allow a character to talk their way out of a situation) but I do like a healthy dose of paranoia in my runs.

[HappyDaze]

The big difference, Assensing can be done from afar, looking at something that is in plain view. It does not require to pick someone of a crowd and putting needles under their skin.

Plain View is going to get really complicated in the Sixth World. Is using Assensing really considered to be Plain View? What about looking at them with your cyberware-mounted radar unit that can see parts of them quite clearly even through clothing? What about looking at them while using a Detection spell? What about a technomancer who can claim that their account information is in his Plain View?