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> Recoilless weapons, Do they get less than -1 per shot?
Dakka Dakka
post May 5 2009, 05:18 PM
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There are several weapons that IRL have negligible recoil, like rocket launchers, flamethorwers and lasers. Do they suffer normal recoil modifiers or is ther a differing rule I'm not aware of?
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Jaid
post May 5 2009, 05:49 PM
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lasers do not. not sure about flamethrowers, but i think they do (and i doubt the negligible recoil anyways... you have to propel the fuel somehow, and iirc they have quite an impressive range and they fire some kind of gelatin-like substance... probably fairly heavy. kinda like a firehose.)

rockets are generally single shot anyways, so since you only get one attack with them per IP it really doesn't matter... there is no second shot to suffer recoil, and recoil doesn't do anything to the first shot.
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Dakka Dakka
post May 5 2009, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (Jaid @ May 5 2009, 07:49 PM) *
lasers do not. not sure about flamethrowers, but i think they do (and i doubt the negligible recoil anyways... you have to propel the fuel somehow, and iirc they have quite an impressive range and they fire some kind of gelatin-like substance... probably fairly heavy. kinda like a firehose.)
you might be right about that.

QUOTE
rockets are generally single shot anyways, so since you only get one attack with them per IP it really doesn't matter... there is no second shot to suffer recoil, and recoil doesn't do anything to the first shot.
Only one of two rocket launchers in the BBB is single shot, the other is semi automatic as is another one in the Arsenal.
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Stahlseele
post May 5 2009, 07:06 PM
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Still no Burst/FA Rocket/Missle-Luncher?
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Dakka Dakka
post May 5 2009, 07:14 PM
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Not off the rack. But you could mod it. Unfortunately the ammunition is a little expensive for a mere +2 DV

FA Lasers however would a) be stylish and b) effective and the higher rate of fire could offset the weird drawbacks of rain and fog.
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Stahlseele
post May 5 2009, 07:16 PM
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Hell yeah, PULE-LASERS!
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TBRMInsanity
post May 5 2009, 08:45 PM
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Because a missile/rocket launcher has a back draft they don't suffer from recoil. That being said I would be hesitant as a GM to allow to create a rocket launcher that shoots BF or FA. You would need a missile/rocket rack to pull something like that off, and I doubt your character could lift all that weight. Even a single round BF rocket launcher pack that fires say 4-10 rockets in one BF round would require a powered exoskeleton to fire. Most people can only carry 3 missiles/rockets at one time before starting being weighted down.
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Dragnar
post May 5 2009, 09:08 PM
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Just as a quick note: Most "recoilless weapons" don't eliminate recoil completely, they just eliminate the kickback. Bigger weapons usually still shake quite a bit. I wouldn't envy the poor soul having to fire a handheld FA rocket launcher...
Lasers are about the only weapon type that actually has no recoil.
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Stahlseele
post May 5 2009, 09:52 PM
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The sonic rifle thingie doesn't have any either.
And Flame-Throwers?
Come on, how much Recoil does your super soaker generate? O.o
That can NOT be compared to what comes out of firemens big long thick hoses . .
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Dakka Dakka
post May 5 2009, 09:54 PM
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True, but FA Rocket Launchers need not necessarily be man-potable. Drones and vehicles could also get an increase in firepower. If the GM does not rule the vehicle sufficiently heavy to completely ignore recoil, the lesser recoil of launchers could help.

@Stahlseele: Or Lasrifles & Hellguns (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

Totally forgot the sonic weapon.
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Fix-it
post May 5 2009, 10:08 PM
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M2 Flamethrower

capacity; 4 gallons fuel, nitrogen propellant.

fuel is napalm, which is a mixture of gasoline and a thickener, we'll say 6 lbs a gallon. it uses half a gallon a second, and kicks flames 132 feet. that's ~396 back-of-the-napkin-foot-lbs. which compares to a round of 9mm parabellum. it has SOME recoil. certainly more than your super soaker.
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Draco18s
post May 5 2009, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE (Fix-it @ May 5 2009, 06:08 PM) *
M2 Flamethrower

capacity; 4 gallons fuel, nitrogen propellant.

fuel is napalm, which is a mixture of gasoline and a thickener, we'll say 6 lbs a gallon. it uses half a gallon a second, and kicks flames 132 feet. that's ~396 back-of-the-napkin-foot-lbs. which compares to a round of 9mm parabellum. it has SOME recoil. certainly more than your super soaker.


Also has like 3 times the range.
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Dragnar
post May 5 2009, 11:14 PM
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Flamethrowers aren't free of recoil, as mentioned. You just don't care too much about straying from your intended target point by 5-10 cm as that still lights them up quite nicely. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
I forgot about the sonic gun as well. I've no idea how those would react, as AFAIK in RL those are only experimented with on a much bigger scale. Those things tremble quite a bit, although it's not comparable to actual ballistic weapons of the same size.

And I'm not up to snuff on my w40k fluff, but aren't hellguns just high-powered lasguns anyway? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
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Starmage21
post May 5 2009, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE (Dragnar @ May 5 2009, 04:08 PM) *
Lasers are about the only weapon type that actually has no recoil.


Misconception! Photons do have weight! They do generate recoil when propelled from a laser device. Its just negligable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

/threadjack
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KCKitsune
post May 6 2009, 04:56 AM
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QUOTE (Starmage21 @ May 5 2009, 07:37 PM) *
Misconception! Photons do have weight! They do generate recoil when propelled from a laser device. Its just negligable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

/threadjack


Yes, because all those micro-newtons of recoil are SO throwing off your aim! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif)
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Matsci
post May 6 2009, 05:25 AM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 5 2009, 11:06 AM) *
Still no Burst/FA Rocket/Missle-Luncher?


Flechette Hail Barrage Rocket Launcher. Arsenal. Capable of dumping 20 rockets on to some poor fool from a quarter mile away.
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Draco18s
post May 6 2009, 05:28 AM
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QUOTE (Starmage21 @ May 5 2009, 07:37 PM) *
Misconception! Photons do have weight! They do generate recoil when propelled from a laser device. Its just negligable (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

/threadjack


No. Photons have exactly 0 mass. 1 unit of atomic mass is a proton, a photon is smaller than an electron (5.4 * 10^-4 u), so even if it did have non zero positive mass, the number would be so small as to actually not matter in Newtonian physics (which is what recoil is).
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Starmage21
post May 6 2009, 12:55 PM
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QUOTE (Draco18s @ May 6 2009, 12:28 AM) *
No. Photons have exactly 0 mass. 1 unit of atomic mass is a proton, a photon is smaller than an electron (5.4 * 10^-4 u), so even if it did have non zero positive mass, the number would be so small as to actually not matter in Newtonian physics (which is what recoil is).


http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/.../photonmass.htm

Its far less than 1 unit of atomic mass, but it is still there. Enough of them fired simultaneously and eventually you get something.
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TBRMInsanity
post May 6 2009, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE (Stahlseele @ May 5 2009, 03:52 PM) *
The sonic rifle thingie doesn't have any either.
And Flame-Throwers?
Come on, how much Recoil does your super soaker generate? O.o
That can NOT be compared to what comes out of firemens big long thick hoses . .


Not to get into too many details but I modified a super soaker once by replacing the hand pumping with a CO2 canister. When I fired the weapon it had kick (about the same as a C7 (M16)). I also melted the nossel of the super soaker.
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Draco18s
post May 6 2009, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (Starmage21 @ May 6 2009, 08:55 AM) *
http://www.usatoday.com/weather/resources/.../photonmass.htm

Its far less than 1 unit of atomic mass, but it is still there. Enough of them fired simultaneously and eventually you get something.


Like I said, even if it is non-zero it's so small to not make a difference at the macroscale.

Plus, if it's moving at the speed of light, it is massless, thus a laser has no mass.
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KarmaInferno
post May 6 2009, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE (Dragnar @ May 5 2009, 09:08 PM) *
Just as a quick note: Most "recoilless weapons" don't eliminate recoil completely, they just eliminate the kickback. Bigger weapons usually still shake quite a bit. I wouldn't envy the poor soul having to fire a handheld FA rocket launcher...
Lasers are about the only weapon type that actually has no recoil.


Not a rocket launcher, but the first thing I thought of.

(I think it's a shoulder fired anti-tank shell launcher? Not sure.)



-karma
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Draco18s
post May 6 2009, 10:44 PM
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It also doesn't let gasses escape from the back like a bazooka does.
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TBRMInsanity
post May 6 2009, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ May 6 2009, 04:01 PM) *
Not a rocket launcher, but the first thing I thought of.

(I think it's a shoulder fired anti-tank shell launcher? Not sure.)


This is defiantly not recoilless.
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Dragnar
post May 7 2009, 12:11 AM
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I'm not even sure what exactly that is.
Do I see that correctly, a system that fires some kind of shock piston backwards to mechanically simulate the way rocket launchers reduce recoil? Just so you can fire absurdly big calibres without ripping your arm off? What'd you actually need that for?
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Meatbag
post May 7 2009, 01:27 AM
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By RAW, several weapons that are effectively recoiless (or should be) are not. The Ares Super-Squirt causes recoil, and by a strict reading, the Pain Inducer does as well ("lasers cause no recoil" wasn't introduced until Arsenal, and Errata hasn't changed that weapon).

I'm willing to give the gyrojet pistol a pass. since real gyrojet pistols have a minimum range. while the FN-AAL does not, apart from the mechanism in the rockets. In a real example, the initial shove down the barrel is comparable with a Nerf cannon - one could stop the weapon by jamming a finger down the barrel.
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