Prejudiced againts Ghouls Options

[Stahlseele]

Yeah, no, i, as a PLAYER, am pretty much prejudiced against these sissy boy leaf blower longeared freaks(elves).
so, the GM rolled, and actually hit elves on some kind of chart he had for that. and then rolled and my character got to Hitler levels of Hate. Against elves.
If i had not played a troll, i would soo have joined humanis or alamos 20k after that. or some group that's strictly against elves. i DID have connections to Lord Torgo and his Spikes ^^

[Larme]

It's ok to be racist against elves, because they're racist against you. They think they're better than you! And after a few social rolls, so will you...

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

It's ok to be racist against elves, because they're racist against you. They think they're better than you! And after a few social rolls, so will you...

That was good... and Apt in a lot of cases in my experience...

[BlueMax]

Huh,
I get the impression, thats an impression folks not a fact, that most people are referring to obvious prejudice. Obvious prejudice is the "pralines and d***" of character traits. Its got no class, not style, no danger. And its easy to pull off because its almost farcical. For frag's sake, its something *I* could pull off.
Now, take a character who is not obviously prejudiced, is not outspoken and may even have "some elven friends". The character who makes subtle choices. The one who rationalizes their acts of hatred. "I can't stabilize him till we finish the firefight". That is character and if not played over the top, it represents the real problem of prejudice. Those who are prejudiced and haven't quite figured it out yet are the most dangerous, to themselves and others.

For those Magnum P.I. fans, and really, who the frag isnt?, there is a great episode on the subject. Most of it having to do with Higgins' prejudice against the Irish.

[Fuchs]

Funny, Id have kinda thought everyone would be prejudiced against things that EAT PEOPLE.

This.

[Stahlseele]

Anybody Prejudiced against Dragons?
Speak up please.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Anybody Prejudiced against Dragons?
Speak up please.

If it was an option... Sure, but they never show enough presence in our game to matter at all...

Now Ghouls... or Elves, or those stupid Trogs....... Now we are talking...

[Larme]

Huh,
I get the impression, thats an impression folks not a fact, that most people are referring to obvious prejudice. Obvious prejudice is the "pralines and d***" of character traits. Its got no class, not style, no danger. And its easy to pull off because its almost farcical. For frag's sake, its something *I* could pull off.

What do you mean, no danger? Are you telling me that an anti-troll racist who can't hold his tongue isn't in danger when he meets a group of troll gangers? As for a lack of class or style, that's kind of the point. Many people will think less of you, even if they're not part of the same race, because of your non-classy bigotry, especially Shadowrunners, who tend to be more accepting of other races than mainstream society. And easy to pull off, sure. But why does that matter? Flaws need to be difficult to roleplay now?

Now, take a character who is not obviously prejudiced, is not outspoken and may even have "some elven friends". The character who makes subtle choices. The one who rationalizes their acts of hatred. "I can't stabilize him till we finish the firefight". That is character and if not played over the top, it represents the real problem of prejudice. Those who are prejudiced and haven't quite figured it out yet are the most dangerous, to themselves and others.

For those Magnum P.I. fans, and really, who the frag isnt?, there is a great episode on the subject. Most of it having to do with Higgins' prejudice against the Irish.

You're correct that the worst kind of racism today is subtle, maybe even unconscious racism. It's not about lynching people of other races, it's about treating them worse without really admitting what you're doing. That's the kind of racism that creates a widespread social disadvantage for minorities, even in the face of laws designed to prevent discrimination. But honestly, you can't compare that kind of racism to what existed in the South before the civil rights movement. Maybe your point is, if people don't know they're racist, others won't predict when they do a racist act. If they're overtly racist, then you know not to trust them. That might be true, but only in settings where trust matters. In settings that involve a face to face confrontation, I'd much rather be facing the guy who rationalizes his racism and keeps it to himself, than the guy who wants to strangle me just because of how I was born. Sure, I'll be more on my guard against the rabid murdering racist, but if he's stronger than me, or if he has a bunch of armed friends, I have to say I consider him the most dangerous kind of racist. The subtly prejudiced guy might be thinking negative stereotypes when he meets me, but I'm pretty sure it won't devolve into murder.

[HappyDaze]

Prejudice against really uncommon targets - like dragons and AIs - or against target groups that should be disliked - like insect spirits and shedim - really shouldn't quaify to give you BPs.

[Fuchs]

What do you mean, no danger? Are you telling me that an anti-troll racist who can't hold his tongue isn't in danger when he meets a group of troll gangers? As for a lack of class or style, that's kind of the point. Many people will think less of you, even if they're not part of the same race, because of your non-classy bigotry, especially Shadowrunners, who tend to be more accepting of other races than mainstream society. And easy to pull off, sure. But why does that matter? Flaws need to be difficult to roleplay now?

If in Shadowrun many people will think less of someone for hating ghouls then that's no longer a game I want to play.

[Larme]

If in Shadowrun many people will think less of someone for hating ghouls then that's no longer a game I want to play.

I wasn't talking about ghouls, they're definitely a separate case, being Infected and eating human flesh and whatnot. But there would be people who think less of you if you hate trogs, elves, or dwarves. Or humans, for that matter.

[BlueMax]

What do you mean, no danger? Are you telling me that an anti-troll racist who can't hold his tongue isn't in danger when he meets a group of troll gangers? As for a lack of class or style, that's kind of the point. Many people will think less of you, even if they're not part of the same race, because of your non-classy bigotry, especially Shadowrunners, who tend to be more accepting of other races than mainstream society. And easy to pull off, sure. But why does that matter? Flaws need to be difficult to roleplay now?

I don't think obvious is dangerous past a few sessions. Hate brings down its own justice. An obvious X hater will only set the group up for trouble, danger and death.

Even Brackhaven's work is obfuscated (From the public point of view, not the "I read the GM section" view). Words are chosen to imply. That's many shades safer than wearing the hood with the Ear it.

BlueMax