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> Creating Some Villains, Help me do my worst Dumpshock!
Malachi
post May 8 2009, 06:43 PM
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In the next run for my group, I'm planning on introducing some recurring villains. For some reason, using recurring villains has been something that I have never really done successfully in my years GM'ing Shadowrun. I'm planning on stealing an idea from Ghost Cartels by creating a pair of Aztechnology "Shorn Ones" - these are black ops agents that AZT sends in when they need dirty work done right. These two guys are being dispatched to Seattle to make sure a special AZT project, that the players have been fragging with, suffers no more disruptions. The two of them should be more than a match for a team of 5 Shadowrunners. Ghost Cartels explains that Shorn Ones work as a pair with complementary skills, so that's where I'm starting to design them.

First, the character I've tentatively named Wolf. This will be "the hammer" of the group: tough as nails and able to dish out punishment in both ranged and melee combat. He is the Sammie, Rigger, and Hacker of the group. He shouldn't be exceptionally stealthy, only competently so, but his primary focus should be in all things combat.

The second character is tentatively named Raven. He will be "the knife in the dark" of the group, specializing in stealth and subterfuge as well as all things Magical. He is a Mystic Adept with a good combination of powers and possibly bioware to do his job really well.

For stats, I'd like Wolf to have MBW 3 and a ton of cyber and bioware to make him freakishly strong, tough, and fast. Raven will be a Grade 3 Initiate with a Magic of 9, 4 or 5 points of which will be Magician and the rest for Adept powers and (possibly) Bioware. He'll have a Power Focus 2 to make up for the weaker Magic. These guys will have Betaware everything, and basically limitless resources.

So here's the challenge DS: help me stat out a pair of real hoop-kicking opponents that will frighten and harass my players for awhile. They can (and should) also be designed to take advantage of certain tactics as these guys have been trained to work together for some time. Show me what you've got DS!
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BlueMax
post May 8 2009, 07:04 PM
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Consider this thread watched. But remember, in 4th ed use goons. Its hard to make anyone who can survive more than two spells or good shots.

BlueMax
/We need more goons
// lots of goons
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DWC
post May 8 2009, 07:33 PM
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Goons rule. Unless you can convince the players that they don't want to kill these guys when they show up a second time, they'll die on their third appearance (because they burnt all their edge to survive the second).

If they are in the area to thwart the runners' plans, then they should be doing it by finding ways to make sure the rest of the world interferes with the runners' plans. Shadowrunning is a fragile, delicate business. Little things that go wrong make or break most plans. Finding the little things to break, and breaking them at the perfect time will unravel plans all day long. Mid-run on a secure facility, spoof a command to put someone's commlink into Active mode. Banish or kill spirits the PCs use for overwatch when they're most needed. Have Wolf send an agent to crash the hacker's stealth program as he's brute forcing his way into a security node. Kill a low level contact who's got the information that the PCs need to pull a job. Have a hacked semi crash into their van on the way to a job. Dispel their sustained spells in the middle of combat with security forces.

Let the runners find out through word of mouth, and their own digging, that someone seriously alpha is in town to stop them from breaking Aztechnology's pet project. Introduce them to the runners in a situation where the PCs won't want to start a fight. Leave the runners wondering who these guys are, and always wondering if the two they've met are the only ones.
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Malachi
post May 8 2009, 07:53 PM
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@DWC: Great ideas, I was planning on doing a lot of things like that. This first run will have them make a sort of "cameo" appearance right at the end of the run. Just as the players are finishing up extracting someone, these guys are going to show up and start to do their thing. The players will most likely see they are outclassed and since the extraction is mostly complete, they'll bug out but (hopefully) be left with an "who were those guys?" kind of impression.
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Demonseed Elite
post May 8 2009, 07:59 PM
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As far as goons and Shorn Ones go, keep in mind that Shorn Ones often work through local groups, such as gangs or terrorist organizations. So the goons may not immediately throw up warning flags of "AZT!" to the runners. Which might make for an interesting twist when the runners learn just who the villains are.
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SincereAgape
post May 9 2009, 05:41 AM
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Two things. Malachi, you're one of my boys and one of my favorite posters on Dumpshock. The character concepts you have are fantastic and amazing but please change their names. Wolf and Raven remind me greatly of Richard Raven and Wolfgang Kies, two of the most heroic characters in the SR universe ever created. Please don't tarnish their names chummer. Please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (In the end do whatever you like, I'm sure you have a good reason why they are Wolf and Raven.)

Second, DWC is a current PC in my campaign. He hit the nail on the head with his insight about these two characters. He is also a PC who consistently analyzes the mission in a constructive way and adds wonderful insights/additions to the story.

For example on a recent run DWC and the team were bodyguarding a Dwarf VIP who served as a liason between the Mafia gangs and the Russian Mob in Seattle. The team was ordered to protect this dwarf for 24 hours from various hit teams. During the run, the dwarf enters a strip bar and promptly seduces a ork and a dwarf into a private back room. The paranoid Hacker/Rigger who is reality impaired was caution that the two 'exotic entertainers' who drew the dwarf's attention were hired assassins. DWC dismissed the idea and one thought of a better idea then what I had originally, and that was to assume the dwarf VIP was a serial killer. When he mentioned that, I thought it was a fantastic idea, but could not implement it because DWC just mentioned it. In the end, the dwarf escaped through a window and ran through the streets of Downtown Seattle butt naked in attempts to get away from his bodyguards and cause more mischief. The runners ended up chasing the dwarf down a few blocks carrying his cloths with them. The dwarf turned down an alley only to meet a Triad hit team.

Serial killer. Brilliant. Should have went with that.
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Ryu
post May 9 2009, 09:18 AM
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Part One:
Hummingbird (Ork):
[ Spoiler ]
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Ryu
post May 9 2009, 10:52 AM
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Part Two:
Taipan (Elf):
[ Spoiler ]
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Ryu
post May 9 2009, 08:31 PM
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Part 3:
Combined tactics
I envision Hummingbird as a calm, "war is an artform" individual. Taipan on the other hand is always in search of conflict, physical or otherwise.

In combat, Hummingbird takes up the center. The drone network consists of either a bunch of small recon drones, or of a full-blown attack squadron. Taipan provides counterspelling and tries a flanking maneuver, while Rain takes astral overwatch.
Offensive operations are prepared by infiltrating the oppositions matrix systems, astral recon by Rain, and possibly a weather control service. A summoned spirit provides concealment both metahumans. The first thing the group should notice is either a bunch of combat drones or Hummingbird in full battle gear (ruthenium-coated milspec armor) surrounded by recon drones.

They prefer a good cop/bad cop routine in social encounters. Both are professional warriors that can believably claim to care for any subordinates, but any opponent is out of luck. They usually agree that the offensive option is best, even while Hummingbird pretends to keep the more agressive Taipan in check.

Given what you did before with optional objectives, and that your group targets Aztech, the faction controlling Taipan&Hummingbird could have various opinions on the runners goals. You could have them
  • support the runners on all/one of their objectives, against otherwise impossible odds
  • protect a secondary target - the runners might well decide not to take it
  • conduct sabotage according to DWCs suggestions
  • go to open conflict, even before your group decides to


(I would personally also be fine with Wolf/Raven... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) )
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Larme
post May 9 2009, 08:58 PM
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Your two "uber" villains aren't even maxed out on any stat? What kind of wussbuckets are the PC's supposed to be, anyway? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohplease.gif) Now, they do a good job of evening out the numbers, because both of them are basically "pet" classes, each one brings powerful allies to the fight.

TBH, the only kind of "recurring" villains you're likely to see is ones that never come face to face with the PCs. These two have that potential, they can send their minions without risking themselves. The moment they come out of hiding, they're going to get ganked, unless the PCs are major doofuses.

The problem with prime runners is that there isn't much in the way of half measures for a GM in Shadowrun. Either the badguys are strong enough to inta-gib the PCs, and they do, or they're not and the PCs eat them for breakfast. The only way to have them recur without killing any members of the team is for them to use indirect methods to disrupt the team's efforts, like sending drones and spirits, setting up bombs and traps, and blowing the PCs' stealth with well-timed flares or by triggering alarms. They can also go after the run target directly -- they can snipe the extraction target, download and delete the paydata before the PCs get it, compromise the drop location and grab the macguffin before the J collects it... Two prime runners that are aiming for disruption rather than combat can be a serious thorn in the PCs' side. Two prime runners who want to go toe to toe, however, are only going to have two outcomes: they are too strong and they murder several players, or they are too weak and they never recur again. Neither one is very good, which is why recurring villains shouldn't be set up specifically for direct confrontations.

Also: plant spirit named phoenix? Did you roll a critical glitch on your imagination test for that one? Makes sense for a fire spirit, or maybe a beast spirit, but birds have little in common with plants.
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Ryu
post May 9 2009, 09:13 PM
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Heh. You can always increase those ratings across the board. Except were you can´t.

I agree on the "recurring" problem, that´s the reason for high reaction/body/armor/trauma dampers. They won´t be safe from harm, but can survive most attacks and strike back. Fight by proxy opens up the possibility of partial victory for the runners.

As for Phoenix, I chose it for the renewal aspect of plant spirits. Let´s see...
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TeOdio
post May 10 2009, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE (SincereAgape @ May 9 2009, 01:41 AM) *
Two things. Malachi, you're one of my boys and one of my favorite posters on Dumpshock. The character concepts you have are fantastic and amazing but please change their names. Wolf and Raven remind me greatly of Richard Raven and Wolfgang Kies, two of the most heroic characters in the SR universe ever created. Please don't tarnish their names chummer. Please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (In the end do whatever you like, I'm sure you have a good reason why they are Wolf and Raven.)

Just call them Lobo and Cuervo. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)
Also, remember the real villain is probably the suit they report to, and if the players spank them, they can eventually be replaced by others. The suit has whatever budget constraints allow him or her to be as big a pain in the nalgas as you deem appropriate. Also, to allow for reoccurring badassery you should be merciful with your runners if they go down in flames against your enemies, and give good reasons for your runners to do the same should they go down in defeat to your runners. Also, don't have them fight to the death, or against odds they feel are too great. Shorn Ones may be fanatic, but they ain't suicidal.
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Larme
post May 11 2009, 12:52 AM
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Ooh! Call them Cheech and Chong! Then your players won't suspect how dangerous they are (IMG:style_emoticons/default/eek.gif)
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vladski
post May 11 2009, 03:03 AM
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In my experience it's really really hard to "create" good recurring villians.  It seems like the more time you put into them, pre-imagining certain events and how they will turn out, the more likely it is the that who you jsut created is the scimitar twirling Egyptian from Raiders of hte Lost Ark: the players will look past your flashiness and jsut plug him with the best weapon at hand. 

The best recurring villains develop spontaneously.  They are the baddie that actually survives unexpectedly due to the natural course of play. I've had my fair share of secondary goons that survived a blood bath and then, when I needed a good character for hte PC's to have to deal with later, I would re-introduce them.  Place them in a situation where the PC's really needed something and now they have to deal with this guy that 6 months ago they put in the hospital or killed his best buddy during a firefight. Or stole his huge sxtash of BTL's while flipping him off and making fun of his hat.



If you want the characters to REALLY remember and despise your pre-plotted arch-villain(s), bring them in as "good guys"  Have the PC's help them out or have them help the PCs obtain their goals and hten, when the moment is opportune, have htem pull the rug out from under the PCs' feet.  Have them galavant off with the prize or complete the assignment negatively for the PCs.  Then, have htem interfere with the PC's under your best controlled circumstances a few sessions later.  Keep them a good way off at arm's length. Make sure you space out their appearances in your stories.   Then finally let the PC's have the opportunity to win.  I guarrantee you will create some memorable, well-enjoyed villains this way.



One of my better NPC villains was an NPC I created for a campaign in which the PCs were troll gangers.  I created several NPCs for them that came from them "brothering up" with another established NPC troll gang, where a few of the other gang's members were "assigned" to participate with them.  Unbeknownst to the NPC gang or to my players' gang, one of hte guys that got asssigned was actually an undercover Lonestar agent who had originally infiltrated the first gang, a troll by the name of Grunge.  When he finally betrayed them and almost got their high-end Yakuza contact arrested for committing murder, the looks on their faces was priceless. It actually was a nail biting moment where the PC's gang caught Grunge stopping a murder by the Yak boss and was a real Mexican stand-off with them trying to decide who was their real ally, the Yak boss who always treated them with predjudice and disdain or this troll chummer that arm wrestled with them and robbed liquor stores comradely and shared prostitutes.  Finally, because the players couldn't actually believe he was a plant, the Yak boss managed to kill him.  It took the Yak boss showing htem Grunge's badge and a phonecall he had made on his comlink to Lonestar to keep them from killing hte Yak on the spot. 

I took a year and probalby 25 or more sessions to set this up.  No, I didn't know "when" he was going to betray them originally; I jsut placed him there and waited for the right moment.  I played fair... never once did he commit murder during his assignment, and many times he was conspiciously absent during the "worst" of their offenses. Several times they were compromised and had a situation go bad because I played him in the background tipping off Lonestar. Had they ever invetigated him or gone through his possessions, they could have discovered he was actually a cop.

I kept them unsuspectng by the way I played his character as an NPC.  I made them like him because he was a true "brute", the character's name was Grunge and he lived up to it by never bathing. My original idea for this, besides it being a play on the fact hte setting was Seattle, was htat Grunge used it as a way to keep the other gangers from getting too close to him and discovering his dual identity.  He was always surrounded by the player's jokes and htey were immensly fond of him as players.  When he betrayed them, they actually felt it.  He was one of their "own."



Vlad

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Tymeaus Jalynsfe...
post May 11 2009, 03:10 AM
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QUOTE (vladski @ May 10 2009, 08:03 PM) *
In my experience it's really really hard to "create" good recurring villians.  It seems like the more time you put into them, pre-imagining certain events and how they will turn out, the more likely it is the that who you jsut created is the scimitar twirling Egyptian from Raiders of hte Lost Ark: the players will look past your flashiness and jsut plug him with the best weapon at hand. 

The best recurring villains develop spontaneously.  They are the baddie that actually survives unexpectedly due to the natural course of play. I've had my fair share of secondary goons that survived a blood bath and then, when I needed a good character for hte PC's to have to deal with later, I would re-introduce them.  Place them in a situation where the PC's really needed something and now they have to deal with this guy that 6 months ago they put in the hospital or killed his best buddy during a firefight. Or stole his huge sxtash of BTL's while flipping him off and making fun of his hat.



If you want the characters to REALLY remember and despise your pre-plotted arch-villain(s), bring them in as "good guys"  Have the PC's help them out or have them help the PCs obtain their goals and hten, when the moment is opportune, have htem pull the rug out from under the PCs' feet.  Have them galavant off with the prize or complete the assignment negatively for the PCs.  Then, have htem interfere with the PC's under your best controlled circumstances a few sessions later.  Keep them a good way off at arm's length. Make sure you space out their appearances in your stories.   Then finally let the PC's have the opportunity to win.  I guarrantee you will create some memorable, well-enjoyed villains this way.



One of my better NPC villains was an NPC I created for a campaign in which the PCs were troll gangers.  I created several NPCs for them that came from them "brothering up" with another established NPC troll gang, where a few of the other gang's members were "assigned" to participate with them.  Unbeknownst to the NPC gang or to my players' gang, one of hte guys that got asssigned was actually an undercover Lonestar agent who had originally infiltrated the first gang, a troll by the name of Grunge.  When he finally betrayed them and almost got their high-end Yakuza contact arrested for committing murder, the looks on their faces was priceless. It actually was a nail biting moment where the PC's gang caught Grunge stopping a murder by the Yak boss and was a real Mexican stand-off with them trying to decide who was their real ally, the Yak boss who always treated them with predjudice and disdain or this troll chummer that arm wrestled with them and robbed liquor stores comradely and shared prostitutes.  Finally, because the players couldn't actually believe he was a plant, the Yak boss managed to kill him.  It took the Yak boss showing htem Grunge's badge and a phonecall he had made on his comlink to Lonestar to keep them from killing hte Yak on the spot. 

I took a year and probalby 25 or more sessions to set this up.  No, I didn't know "when" he was going to betray them originally; I jsut placed him there and waited for the right moment.  I played fair... never once did he commit murder during his assignment, and many times he was conspiciously absent during the "worst" of their offenses. Several times they were compromised and had a situation go bad because I played him in the background tipping off Lonestar. Had they ever invetigated him or gone through his possessions, they could have discovered he was actually a cop.

I kept them unsuspectng by the way I played his character as an NPC.  I made them like him because he was a true "brute", the character's name was Grunge and he lived up to it by never bathing. My original idea for this, besides it being a play on the fact hte setting was Seattle, was htat Grunge used it as a way to keep the other gangers from getting too close to him and discovering his dual identity.  He was always surrounded by the player's jokes and htey were immensly fond of him as players.  When he betrayed them, they actually felt it.  He was one of their "own."



Vlad



Awesome...
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The Jake
post May 11 2009, 06:22 AM
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Personally, I like flipping friends/allies into bad guys.

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Blade
post May 11 2009, 12:47 PM
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In my current campaign, there aren't exactly recurring villains because there aren't any real "villain" (except maybe one character who's quite evil). But there are quite a lot of recurring characters, some of them who might be at odds with the PCs. But most of them aren't just fighters who'll try to kill the players. There's a cop who wants to catch the hacker (à la "Catch me if you can"), other runner teams that can work with or against the PCs, fixers who can be at odds with the PCs or some of their actions, a SK agent who's keeping an eye out for the team hacker, the most popular and best-liked personality of Hambourg (a pop-singer/actress, heir of an Altermann, a kind of mix between Paris Hilton and Lady Diana who the runner suspect to be linked with some strange magic activities involving killing childrens and the production of a strange drug), the character's contacts... and so on.

So far there hasn't been any character who's been only an enemy. Everyone just follow his own agenda. They could be chatting casually one day and become sworn enemies the next day for a reason or another (or the other way around).

I agree with the posters who pointed out that an indirect opposition is often better. What made the pop-star such a difficult opposition wasn't that she's a prime runner, nor were her body guards: when my PC attacked them, the bodyguards quickly surrendered and it took just one spell to take the strange magical entity the pop-star had become (they still don't know what it was). The problem was that they didn't know if the pop-star was responsible for what had happened or if she was a victim... and she was very good at convincing them she was the latter. And when they started bothering her, all she had to do was have the cops arrest them for what they did to her bodyguard (and her). Even if the runners had some good evidence that they had good reason to do what they did, they still were criminals with fake SINs, illegal gear and a lot of other reasons to be sent to jail.

But if you really want physical confrontation, I think there are four essential components to your NPC's survival:
1. Stealth. If they aren't seen, your NPC are safe from bullets and spells and they can easily hit the PC since they don't get a defense roll. Ruthenium coating and thermal dampening are very helpful for this.
2. Toughness. Combat Armor are nearly a must-have. They'll prevent your NPC being killed in one-shot, so they can retreat if they get in a situation where they can get shot.
3. Magic protection. Spells and spirits can be very dangerous, so they'll need some good counterspelling and something to be able to handle spirits.
4. Combat end : If your villains are to come back again, it means that they are still alive and so are the PC. Because of this, no side should be able to kill off the other. Most NPCs behave nicely and tend to do what the GM wants them to do, so you'll only have to find a way to end the combat before the PC can kill the NPCs. Either an event that ends the combat (the place is collapsing for example) or a way for the NPC to leave the area quickly if necessary.
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Malachi
post May 11 2009, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE (SincereAgape @ May 8 2009, 11:41 PM) *
Two things. Malachi, you're one of my boys and one of my favorite posters on Dumpshock.

I'm somebody's "boy?" I am very flattered and amused. Thanks, that's a real compliment. While we're on the topic of people that we like on DS, I'll take the moment to say that Ryu is one of my favourite posters (thanks for your contribution).

QUOTE (SincereAgape @ May 8 2009, 11:41 PM) *
The character concepts you have are fantastic and amazing but please change their names. Wolf and Raven remind me greatly of Richard Raven and Wolfgang Kies, two of the most heroic characters in the SR universe ever created. Please don't tarnish their names chummer. Please (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) (In the end do whatever you like, I'm sure you have a good reason why they are Wolf and Raven.)

My "good reason" why they're named Wolf and Raven is: I couldn't think of better names at the moment (I did say "tentatively" in my OP (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ). Please help me come up with better names. I really like the idea of their names being Spanish, so we'll go with Lobo and Cuervo for right now (thanks TeOdio).

QUOTE (SincereAgape @ May 8 2009, 11:41 PM) *
Second, DWC is a current PC in my campaign. He hit the nail on the head with his insight about these two characters. He is also a PC who consistently analyzes the mission in a constructive way and adds wonderful insights/additions to the story.

Yeah, this is already in the cards. The adventure I'm planning is going to introduce these two "opponents" (people seem hung up on the word "villain"). In this adventure, the PC's will encounter these guys for the first time, and from here on out they are going to be a foil in the PC's efforts in more indirect ways, but they'll know that Lobo and Cuervo are behind it.
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Malachi
post May 11 2009, 06:01 PM
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Ryu - thanks for taking a first pass at giving those guys some stats. Your stats finally jogged my brain into gear about what I want.

Here's my first pass at creating Lobo:
[ Spoiler ]


Please provide feedback, especially if you see any obvious weakness (besides Magic, that'll be covered by the other member of the pair).
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TBRMInsanity
post May 11 2009, 06:28 PM
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Hey Malachi, as per our discussion on the weekend, here is the info on Aztecnology's standard forces:
* Regular troops are not highly trained but they are highly specialized and damn good in their specific area (the first thing that went through my mind was "Machinegunners don't die!"
* There are two tiers of elite forces (Leopards and Jaguars). Leopards are on par with Red Samurai, while Jaguars are the best Corporate Special forces on the planet (on par with Tir Ghosts).
* Standard unit consists of one Decker (update to Hacker for SR4), one Mages (Read Blood mage for Leopards and Jaguar units), 2 "Soldiers" (can be replaced with an adept or SS if needed), and one paranormal animal expert (or living drone rigger).
* All forces have military training and use standard military tactics (flanking, suppressive fire, calling in artillery if available, etc).
* All forces are equipped with standard to top grade military equipment (which makes a standard sec guard suddenly more dangerous).
* Magical and Matrix security is in layers. Out side layers is silent spotters (watchers/agents), the next couple of layers are warning layers (the actual outer fence of the facility or site), lethal long ranged force is used in the next layer and gets more lethal as you get closer to the crown jewels.
* A background knowledge in Aztec SOP (Standard Operating Procedures) will quickly show holes in their attack plans (ie "Machinegunners don't die"). You won't find Aztec forces lose moral quickly but they can be confused by situations not detailed in their SOPs.

Hope this helps out. Oh sorry I made a mistake I don't have Wake of the Comet, Just Year of the Comet.
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Malachi
post May 11 2009, 06:33 PM
Post #21


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Thanks bud. I'll use that info for the guys that my two Shorn Ones will be ordering around.
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Neraph
post May 11 2009, 07:04 PM
Post #22


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Here's a few concepts for you:

Make the Mystic Adept a jaguar Shifter. Keeps with the theme, and adds a great kewl factor. He (and the other guy) should definately focus on stealth, misdirection, and opposition from the side, as talked about above. The name Ocelotl for the Mystic would probably be good, as that's the Nahuatl word for jaguar, and you should make him a Nahuatl tradition caster (keeping in theme).

Also, when direct confrontations are needed, do fun things like only talk through drones being rigged from "offscreen", such as a Steel Lynx with Walker Mode, thematically to look like a metallic jaguar, would be your cheapest and most effective bet. When not wanting to pull punches, you could use a jaguar biodrone, and in order to keep it interesting, think about the freaking thing being over them in bed when they wake up, staring at them. They see it, have a stroke, and while they're recovering (and it's growling), have a microphone start relaying what you wanted to say. Then have it leap off, activate ruthenium polymer coated orthoskin, and dissapear into the night.

That accomplishes something fairly basic: you get your monologue, and they are inclined to listen, as opposed to try and kill it and interrupt monologue.
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Ryu
post May 11 2009, 07:52 PM
Post #23


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QUOTE (Malachi @ May 11 2009, 08:01 PM) *
Ryu - thanks for taking a first pass at giving those guys some stats. Your stats finally jogged my brain into gear about what I want.

Glad to be of service. I enjoy your posts, too. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)


As for missing things, I would add the athletics group and maybe leadership to Lobo.

References to Jaguar guards are also in Corp. Download (pg. 49/128), and Awakenings (pg. 81). Magician, at least one adept (maybe more), rest cybered. Aztech´s security forces have access to cyberware/bioware depending on unit quality, and AZT guards might even carry anchored and quickened spells (Corp Download). (ACS are described as adequately trained, but lacking in imagination. Perfect mooks.)
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Maxwell Silverha...
post May 11 2009, 08:26 PM
Post #24


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I have a point concerning your characters Attribute scores, I noticed that agility specifically is listed as either 4(9), or 5(9). Per SR4A page 62 under Attributes ratings "The standard range of natural attributes is on a scale of 1 to 6 with 3 being average. Phys and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus racial modifiers. The MAXIMUM augmented attribute value for each metatype is equal to 1.5 times this figure, rounded down."

I.E. you cannot have any attribute of 4(9) or 5(9), you can only augment an attribute to 1.5 times the character rating of that attribute. so it should be 4(6) and 5(7) respectively. To have a (9) augmented attrib you must have the linked attrib at 6.

This applies to ALL Physical and mental attributes so your reaction should only be 4(6) not 4(10).

I have seen several characters making this mistake, so no worries mate, besides if you are truly making elite world class operatives just max the attributes, these guys would of had years of training and experience, so try a 600 point build on them, or build em to 400 then add 300 karma to get them at the right power level.
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DWC
post May 11 2009, 08:37 PM
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QUOTE (Maxwell Silverhammer @ May 11 2009, 04:26 PM) *
I have a point concerning your characters Attribute scores, I noticed that agility specifically is listed as either 4(9), or 5(9). Per SR4A page 62 under Attributes ratings "The standard range of natural attributes is on a scale of 1 to 6 with 3 being average. Phys and Mental attributes have a maximum natural rating of 6 plus or minus racial modifiers. The MAXIMUM augmented attribute value for each metatype is equal to 1.5 times this figure, rounded down."

I.E. you cannot have any attribute of 4(9) or 5(9), you can only augment an attribute to 1.5 times the character rating of that attribute. so it should be 4(6) and 5(7) respectively. To have a (9) augmented attrib you must have the linked attrib at 6.

This applies to ALL Physical and mental attributes so your reaction should only be 4(6) not 4(10).

I have seen several characters making this mistake, so no worries mate, besides if you are truly making elite world class operatives just max the attributes, these guys would of had years of training and experience, so try a 600 point build on them, or build em to 400 then add 300 karma to get them at the right power level.


It's not a mistake. The maximum augmented attributes are a function of your maximum natural attributes, which is why they are spelled out explicitly on the metatype chart on page 81 of the character generation section.
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