Is Dunkelzahn Behind Aztlan - Dumpshock Forums

Is Dunkelzahn Behind Aztlan, The right one

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moosegod View Member Profile	Jan 16 2004, 07:46 PM Post #1
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818	I hope this works this time. AAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHH!!!!

Kagetenshi View Member Profile	Jan 16 2004, 08:23 PM Post #2
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,011 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802	Not having much luck with polls there, Moosgod? ;) ~J

Xirces View Member Profile	Jan 17 2004, 09:18 AM Post #3
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 345 Joined: 10-February 03 From: Leeds, UK Member No.: 4,046	I voted "no", because it seemed a better option than "no" and "yes", or "yes". D seems to be the benevolent dictator type - doing the best for humanity in the long term, even if it means short term hardship / problems. Since he gave his own life to save humanity (I think I'm gonna hurl - does it strike everyone else as needlessly messianic?) from the horrors, which the evidence suggests are brought quicker by Aztec blood magic it seems very unlikely...

Squire View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 05:34 AM Post #4
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Denver CO, USA Member No.: 112	I may have missed it, but what ever gave you the idea of a connection (other than rivalry) between Big-D and Aztlan?

Nath

Jan 18 2004, 10:14 AM

Post #5

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QUOTE (Squire)

I may have missed it, but what ever gave you the idea of a connection (other than rivalry) between Big-D and Aztlan?

QUOTE (Dunkelzahn)

Dunkelzahn's Will
To Oliver McClure of Quebéc City, I leave my voting stock in Aztechnology and the board seat to which that entitles you. It was refreshing to find such a thoroughly honest man making an adequate living in these times that make such a thing so difficult. I hope that you will prove to be a good influence on the board, and perhaps remind them of the surpassing brightness of the metahuman soul.

MooCow View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 05:15 PM Post #6
Moo!! Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 75 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 424	He also had Renraku Stock, Ares stock, some bearer bonds for Saeder Krupp, and several other companies. If he's behind Aztechnology, he must be behind these companies as well. Wonder what Lofwyr thinks of that? I do not understand people who insist on playing in a world where /every/ dragon is evil, and every corporation is evil, and every IE is evil, etc, etc. It lacks so much imagination it's pathetic.

Ancient History View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 05:20 PM Post #7
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935	Oy, I'm rather sorry I brought this up. But hey, it does prove that there was a Great Dragon on the board of AZT! Who knows what other rumors might be true!

mfb View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 05:27 PM Post #8
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	moo, D didn't have enough stock in those companies to have a seat on the board. owning that much stock is a big thing. the fact that he owned it, and that no one knew about it, is incredibly significant. whether he was behind Azt, or just working against it from within, is the question.

moosegod View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 05:58 PM Post #9
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,047 Joined: 12-November 03 From: Perilously close to the Sioux Nation. Member No.: 5,818	Also, Aztechnology is privately held. Not publicly traded.

mfb View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 06:01 PM Post #10
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	yeah. like i said on another thread, Azt is very probably still too busy pissing their pants to try and take any action against McClure.

Nath

Jan 18 2004, 06:40 PM

Post #11

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QUOTE (MooCow)

He also had Renraku Stock, Ares stock, some bearer bonds for Saeder Krupp, and several other companies. If he's behind Aztechnology, he must be behind these companies as well. Wonder what Lofwyr thinks of that?

I don't remember any bearer bonds. All he has are "promissory notes for sums owed by various wholly-owned subsidiaries of Saeder-Krupp." Loans in other words.

QUOTE (mfb)

moo, D didn't have enough stock in those companies to have a seat on the board. owning that much stock is a big thing. the fact that he owned it, and that no one knew about it, is incredibly significant.

He gave to Miles Lanier his Renraku shares "plus the board seat to which said shares entitle him" and to Arthur Vogel his seat on the board of Ares Macrotechnology. Considering he reached 24.1% after buying Aurelius stock (22% in 2054), Vogel had less than 2% to go with that seat. And Gavilan Ventures owned 12.2%, granting Nadja Daiar her own seat after Dunkezahn's death.

In most corporations, 'enough' stock to have a seat on the board is just one share. Then you need to be elected by the shareholders assembly, which is indeed easier when you're yourself a major shareholder: you vote for yourself and it's done. But you can also be sworn in by the vote of your best friend or grandfather who happens to own a quarter of the corp and wants to fill board seats with relatives (alone, he can only occupy one seat at a time, and thus have a single vote furing board metting).

mfb View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 06:43 PM Post #12
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	by the wording of the will, i'd assume that D gave him enough stock to vote himself a seat.

Squire View Member Profile	Jan 18 2004, 09:14 PM Post #13
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Denver CO, USA Member No.: 112	Of course, thanks Nath. By the wording, I would have to say the D was working against AZTs more malevolent programs from within and hopes that McClure (who I remember from such films as...) will continue D's work in attempting to adjust AZTs course away from those harmfull practices.

Guest_Crimsondude 2.0_*

Apr 9 2004, 03:24 AM

Post #14

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I'm bored.

QUOTE (mfb)

yeah. like i said on another thread, Azt is very probably still too busy pissing their pants to try and take any action against McClure.

Except for at least two attempted assassinations.

QUOTE (Nath)

In most corporations, 'enough' stock to have a seat on the board is just one share. Then you need to be elected by the shareholders assembly, which is indeed easier when you're yourself a major shareholder: you vote for yourself and it's done. But you can also be sworn in by the vote of your best friend or grandfather who happens to own a quarter of the corp and wants to fill board seats with relatives (alone, he can only occupy one seat at a time, and thus have a single vote furing board metting).

I just chalk it up to ignorance, because logically it makes zero sense (unless he was the majority shareholder) because otherwise, he'd be opposed by the other shareholders.

QUOTE (MooCow)

I do not understand people who insist on playing in a world where /every/ dragon is evil, and every corporation is evil, and every IE is evil, etc, etc. It lacks so much imagination it's pathetic.

He is by my definition, but only because my definition supposed human beliefs. And I stand behind my thesis.

kevyn668 View Member Profile	Apr 9 2004, 06:05 AM Post #15
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,751 Joined: 8-August 03 From: Neighbor of the Beast Member No.: 5,375	I don't care how bored you are, why did you wait 3 months to weigh in on this? AND I am mildly offended by your sig.

Nath

Apr 9 2004, 12:00 PM

Post #16

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QUOTE (Crimsondude 2.0 @ Apr 9 2004, 04:24 AM)

QUOTE (Nath)

In most corporations, 'enough' stock to have a seat on the board is just one share. Then you need to be elected by the shareholders assembly, which is indeed easier when you're yourself a major shareholder: you vote for yourself and it's done. But you can also be sworn in by the vote of your best friend or grandfather who happens to own a quarter of the corp and wants to fill board seats with relatives (alone, he can only occupy one seat at a time, and thus have a single vote furing board metting).

I just chalk it up to ignorance, because logically it makes zero sense (unless he was the majority shareholder) because otherwise, he'd be opposed by the other shareholders.

It depends on the corp. Each can have its own system of election. However AFAIK it's always true that shareholders can't "oppose" a candidate. If they don't want him, they have to elect somebody else. And this can be very hard in a corp like Aztechnology or Shiawase, where each of the shareholders' gonna suspect the innofensive 'neutral' candidate can be rolling for one of them behind the scene.

Although it seems uncommon in the US, some corps also use "cumulative votes" to elect several directors at the same time. It goes on like: if there are 8 directors to elect and you have 1,200 shares, you get 8x1,200=9,600 votes. You can use them to vote for as many election as you want. To keep it simple, let say a corp has 100 shares and 8 board members. A majority stockholder that owns 51 shares has 408 votes. If he tries to lock down the board, he could cast 51 votes on his favored candidates for each of the 8 seats to grant. A minor stockholder with 7 shares has 56 votes. Using them all on one candidate (himself for instance) for one seat, he can beat the majority stockholder. If there are 1 majority shareholder with 51% and 7 minor shareholder with 7% each, each of them could get a seat on the board and the big one who win 51 to 49 during general assembly would lose 7 to 1 on the board. That's it, if the majority stockholder is stupid enough. Otherwise he could use his 408 votes for only 7 seats, which give 58 votes each. But then the minor shareholders can try to unite... So the majority stockholder can play it safe, using 81 votes for 5 seats. The minor stockholder can win the three remaining with only a single vote, and still beat the major holders by uniting on the 5 other... Of course, in reality there hundreds or thousands of shareholders owning between 35 and 0.00..001% of the stock. The system is then supposed to stabilize at some point, with each shareholders of group of shareholders able to snatch a number of board seats proportionnal to their number of shares.

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