Assault Cannon Recoil?, Is it really zero? Options

[Jhaiisiin]

Okay, so call me crazy. I was looking over the heavy weapons recoil and noticed that it only talks about uncompensated recoil. Thing is, with a single shot weapon, you never get any recoil built up, let alone have it uncompensated. That said, the fluff always mentions the super heavy recoil of firing one of these monstrous guns.

Have I missed something in the readings that assigns a default recoil value with these kind of weapons, or no?

[Draco18s]

Is is vehicular weaponry?

If so, you have your answer (vehicles have recoil compensation of "yes;" or of "Body" if the GM feels that it's needed).

[TonkaTuff]

Nope. As you pointed out, they don't give a recoil mod because, as a single-shot only weapon, the recoil is (mechanically) irrelevant. Though it's easily explained away that the weapon kicking like an awakened mule is exactly why it's single-shot only. But, as with all recoil, you're considered to have enough time by your next turn to reacquire your target without suffering any further penalties.

[hobgoblin]

There is at least one assault cannon in arsenal that is semi-auto. And one can always mod the on in SR4 to same using arsenal rules...

[Larsine]

Okay, so call me crazy. I was looking over the heavy weapons recoil and noticed that it only talks about uncompensated recoil. Thing is, with a single shot weapon, you never get any recoil built up, let alone have it uncompensated. That said, the fluff always mentions the super heavy recoil of firing one of these monstrous guns.

Have I missed something in the readings that assigns a default recoil value with these kind of weapons, or no?

You have missed that the fluff, which was only mentioned under the Panther XXL Assault Cannon, part of the recoil is removed from SR4A

Panther XXL: This enormous assault cannon fires special ammunition common to that used as the primary weapon in small tanks. It comes with a smartgun system and rigid stock with shock pad, though these are hardly enough to compensate for its tremendous recoil. Fortunately, the weapon’s firing rate is quite low.

Panther XXL: This enormous assault cannon fires special ammunition common to the primary weapon in many small tanks. It comes with a smartgun system.

All done to keep new players from asking the question about the Panther XXL Assault Cannons recoil (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

Lars

[Stahlseele]

Is there still a Knockback/knockdown test for those in SR4?
Even if the recoil is only one point, which is doubled for heavy weapons, there allways was the chance of the shot throwing you back in SR3.
Well, at least if you were playing something else than a big and strong Troll. ^^

[Medicineman]

...oO(Panther XXL or Ares Vigorious modified to Salvo ,or Worse Full Auto (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) )

There is at least one assault cannon in arsenal that is semi-auto
Its the Thunderstruck Gaussrifle thats Semi-Auto.Both Assault Cannons are Single Shot


He who dances with a kicking Mule
Medicineman

[Karandaras]

Is there still a Knockback/knockdown test for those in SR4?

There is the "Carrying Heavy Weapons" Rule in Arsenal, p. 162

and there it says:
"Heavy weapons are so large and potentially damaging to the user that they cannot be carried and fired without the help of a gyro stabilization unit. ..."
and
"... whenever a character fires a heavy weapon he is carrying, he [...] may be knocked down (see p. 151, SR4)."

[hobgoblin]

...oO(Panther XXL or Ares Vigorious modified to Salvo ,or Worse Full Auto (IMG:style_emoticons/default/spin.gif) )

There is at least one assault cannon in arsenal that is semi-auto
Its the Thunderstruck Gaussrifle thats Semi-Auto.Both Assault Cannons are Single Shot

Oh crud, i keep thinking of the barret as a assault cannon, when its listed as a sniper rifle...

[Lindt]

Barret is a 12.7mm rifle. IMO, the assault cannons start at 20mm.

[TBRMInsanity]

As a GM I don't think I would allow a player to modify an assault cannon to fire anything but SS, unless it was a vehicle mounted weapon. Just thinking on how heavy that weapon would be is scary. You would need an exosceleton suit just to carry all that ammo.

[Meatbag]

As a GM I don't think I would allow a player to modify an assault cannon to fire anything but SS, unless it was a vehicle mounted weapon.

Why not?

Panther Assault Cannon with external smartgun: 5900Y, before the recoil compensation that you will *need* thanks to doubled recoil.

Full-Auto/Burst Fire modification: 5,700Y, plus access to a Facility, plus labor (if you don't have the skills yourself,)

The ammo alone is expensive, at 450Y for 10, and hard to find, at 16F. If you really want to chew through it faster, be my guest.

An extra fee for Metahuman Customization. because I know you're playing a troll.

This whole setup is about as subtle as - well, carting a tank cannon around Seattle - it's all very illegal, heavy and has a Concealablity modifier of "NO". How often do you think you'll get to use it?

If a player thinks it's worth it, I say he can certainly try to build one, sure.

[Stahlseele]

Factor in things like Military Armor with built in Gyroscope and Strength enhancement and you will be toting that one around like others would an HMG.
And you are not supposed to take it out to seattle. you are supposed to wait in the Van untill stuff goes boom, then step out and make things go BOOM.

[darthmord]

Factor in things like Military Armor with built in Gyroscope and Strength enhancement and you will be toting that one around like others would an HMG.
And you are not supposed to take it out to seattle. you are supposed to wait in the Van untill stuff goes boom, then step out and make things go BOOM.

I have the image of a severely leaning van suddenly bouncing as the troll with his FA minigun steps out of the back.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Stahlseele]

Ahem . . Aren't ALL Miniguns kinda Full Auto Anyway? O.o
But yes, that's what is supposed to happen.
And the Enemy is supposed to SEE that happen too.
Only thing worse than hearing the wwwwhhhiiiiiiIIIIIRRRRRRRR behind you is seing the Guy who can make that noise come straight at you.

Also, first person to argue this being unrealistic does not get to play anything else than a wageslave with no usefull skills/equipment.

[TBRMInsanity]

A similar argument to this caused be to have a long hiatus from Dumpshock. I'm dropping this tread now before I get really angry and say something I regret.

[Stahlseele]

Well, that's what PN's are there for neh=?

[KarmaInferno]

Barret is a 12.7mm rifle. IMO, the assault cannons start at 20mm.

Wait, "small tanks" only fire 20mm rounds?





-karma

[Heath Robinson]

This whole oddity (large SS weapons not suffering recoil) is exactly why I'm in favour of rules that give weapons starting recoil (i.e. on the first round) equal to some value based off their DV. Perhaps [Base DV - 5] is a good value. You could go for [BDV - 4] but I like the idea that Light Pistols and Holdouts can fire twice in an Action Phase without needing RC thanks to their low power ammunition.

[rathmun]

Wait, "small tanks" only fire 20mm rounds?





-karma

I doubt it, maybe if they're using APDS rounds? Anyway, here is something that uses 20mm rounds. 20mm vulcan

[Stingray]

There is the "Carrying Heavy Weapons" Rule in Arsenal, p. 162

and there it says:
"Heavy weapons are so large and potentially damaging to the user that they cannot be carried and fired without the help of a gyro stabilization unit. ..."
and
"... whenever a character fires a heavy weapon he is carrying, he [...] may be knocked down (see p. 151, SR4)."

..personally i found this this rule somewhat stupid..Grenade Launchers are considered as Heavy Weapons, as RAW
so no shooting Armtech MGL-6 (pistol-version Grenade Launcher),no shooting under-barrel Grenade launcher from
your Ares Alpha without gyro stab. unit..as for LMG:s in RL even M60 and M249 could be fired without it..
SR3 were even more vicious toward heavy weapons ( Body 8 AND STR 8 needed), it seems in SR4 it is OPTIONAL rule.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

[Jhaiisiin]

Good to see I wasn't missing something. Still, something like an assault cannon *should* have recoil, in my opinion.

As for modifying the weapon's firing mode, it's RAW. Arsenal gives all the info you need to make an assault cannon Semi-auto at the least. Even doing that much is potentially problematic. An assault cannon is exceedingly deadly to start with. Give it 2 points of Recoil Comp, and you'll never have "Uncompensated" recoil to double, and then a SA Assault Cannon becomes a devastating weapon.

[KarmaInferno]

I doubt it, maybe if they're using APDS rounds? Anyway, here is something that uses 20mm rounds. 20mm vulcan

Yah, For something that's described as firing tank cannon rounds 20mm is awfully small.

Perhaps the high impulse weapon I posted in the other recoil thread?



-karma

[Einzelgänger]

20mm for a tank shell is very small, considering the NTW-20 Sniper rifle fires them, and the Barret M109 fires 25MM rounds (including 25mm grenade shells)
As soon as I find a Vigorous, I intend for my current sniper to try and wire it into a sniper rifle (SS, high damage, anti-tank...yep, the design is even based off the barret, and subsequently the Robocop assault cannon which was a barret with a speed camera on top.)
Let's just face facts that Assault cannons are slightly more mobile, hip fired versions of high callibre sniper rifles, with an apprpiate modification to range.
Indeed, the gauss rifle is oft synonymous with an upgraded sniper rifle in many game systems.

And to those who think my ideas are sick and twisted (which they are), the 950 JDJ exists, essentially a .95 callibre rifle cartridge. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/cyber.gif)

[WyldKnight]

Since everyone is talking about assault cannons maybe you can answer a question that has been bugging this newbie since he picked up arsenal. The thunderstruck and the 121 both do the same damage so why choose the assault cannon over the rifle? You can get the rifle at chargen with the restricted quality, its easier to handle, and with a couple of mods you get no recoil. The only thing the thunderstruck seems to have going for it is just sheer cool factor which while in some circles that can get you far I'm sure the 121 with custom look 2 could do just as well.