Characters that break the game, I want to see some of these at generation monsters. Options

[Lordmalachdrim]

I've been running Shadowrun though many editions and I've yet to have a player break a character at generation (before the release of 4th). After extremely long campaigns...yes. So if you've got a broken guy lets see him in detail. Shadowrun 3 only.

[Kyoto Kid]

...gotta hit the archives, but had a couple "out of the "box uber-runners in my time as GM. Give me a little time to hunt them down...er... up.

[ornot]

Not seen you in a while KK. Good to see you're still about!

re: OP, I've seen some pretty obscene stuff out of the box in SR3, but whether they're game breaking or not, I don't know.

[ElFenrir]

Aye, same here. To be honest, I don't know what you'd consider gamebreaking, out of the box stuff.

I did see a few in my time, and make a few when i was bored. But again, I don't know if you'd consider them gamebreaking.

[Maelstrome]

in my experience as a gm characters are only as broken as the gm lets them be. ive only seen characters be game breaking when the gm cant keep up. ive had several powerful characters in my games and ive never considered them game breaking.

now im sure my baroque will be considered game breaking by your standards. especially because i doubt you have the baroque in your shadowrun.

BEHOLD. The Coffin Man

coffinman
baroque


body 4
strength 6 (10)
quickness6(14)
charisma 2
intelligence3
willpower3
reaction
magic6
essence 6
distortion8

adept powers
increased aim 6
improved heavyweapons6
nervestrike
mysticarmor1

baroques
movebywire 4 (7 essence)
increased aim6 (1.5 essence)
claymore str+3s (1.5 essence)
muscle augmentation 4(1.6 essence)
muscletoner 4(1.6 essence)
minigun 7s 15 shots(3.25 essence)
100 bullets (.5 essence)
optical magnification3(.2essence)

[Stahlseele]

That one is not game breaking, that one is RULES BREAKING.

As for Game Breaking, these are SR4 only:
I think you wanna look up the ultimate mundane climber, a Troll that rolls 40 to 45 Dice on Climbing checks.
Or the Pornomancer, 40 to 55 dice in seduction or something like that.
Then there's Mr.Lucky and the Long-Shot-Rules and general uses/abuses of Edge.
There was some sort of Metal-Storm-Character around. 4 or 6 Arms and could do Long Bursts from modded SMG's with every arm with a dicepool of 15 to 20 . . all at once . .
Posession Based Summonners with Bloodzilla or a Succubus.
Or Brick, the Armor-Troll. 40 to 50 dice for soaking Damage.
Troll Throwing Adepts able to throw Babies through armored Police-Cars.
Or the Skill-Monster who can have every single skill in the Book after only 2 Days of in Game time for about 10% of the usual Price.
My personal Built, an adaption of the BrickTroll. Surged Centaur. 6 Arms, 4 Legs, Head and Torso, all cyber-Limbs, with Skimmer Discs, full Armor Potential that would make some LAV's proud. Also, Cyber-Zombie so pretty evil Attribute Limits and the ability to kick Spirit-Butt too. I call him Binky. But he's not as per the Rules. Well, unless you allow Cybermancy of that Magnitude.

I'll have to Dig up the Sr3 Starting Character with 30 dice in close Combat.

[Maelstrome]

That one is not game breaking, that one is RULES BREAKING.

what rules did i break? in my setting and games that character is legal. unless i missed something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

[Lindt]

This isnt totally maxed out, but I dont have an hour to polish it.

Troll Bow Adept (can throw 20 dice with a weapon with the same power as a panther cannon in near slience)

Str 10 (12)
Qui 5
Int 4
Will 5

Projective Weapons (Bow) 5/7

Ranger-X bow for str 14 (18M)
+ Ex explosive arrowhead (20m)

Imp Bow 5
Imp Physical att (above race mod) 2
Imp Sense: Vis Mag 3
Living Focus (to be used with enhanced aim or imp reflexes)

*edit*
Enhanced articulation
Suprathyriod Gland
And toss in some combat drugs.

This post has been edited by Lindt: May 14 2009, 06:41 PM

[Lindt]

what rules did i break? in my setting and games that character is legal. unless i missed something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif)

WAY WAY over the starting avil limit. Never mind the cash limit, and build point limit. And what the heck is enhanced aim cyberware? Or increased aim adept skills?
And what, no smart link and ranger finder?

[Lordmalachdrim]

This isnt totally maxed out, but I dont have an hour to polish it.

Troll Bow Adept (can throw 20 dice with a weapon with the same power as a panther cannon in near slience)

Str 10 (12)
Qui 5
Int 4
Will 5

Projective Weapons (Bow) 5/7

Ranger-X bow for str 14 (18M)
+ Ex explosive arrowhead (20m)

Imp Bow 5
Imp Physical att (above race mod) 2
Imp Sense: Vis Mag 3
Living Focus (to be used with enhanced aim or imp reflexes)

*edit*
Enhanced articulation
Suprathyriod Gland
And toss in some combat drugs.

Quick thoughts:
I think you're a bit off with the amount of dice he'll be rolling. (skill 7 + Imp Bow of 5 + Enhanced Articulation 1 = 13).
Also how's a str 12 (total) using a str 14 bow?

**edit**
Living Focus? What is that and where is it?

[Maelstrome]

WAY WAY over the starting avil limit. Never mind the cash limit, and build point limit. And what the heck is enhanced aim cyberware? Or increased aim adept skills?
And what, no smart link and ranger finder?

he has no cyberware or bioware. all of that stuff under the heading baroques are baroque powers. he is a third edition priority character. he actually has no money spent on him. baroque cannot take any ware. but they can mimic it with baroque powers. enhanced aim is an adept power that lowers the target number to hit with ranged weapons.

[DWC]

When you're making up your own rules, you can't consider a character game breaking.

[Lordmalachdrim]

Baroque? what is this and where can I find it in the books so I can read up on it?
Also Distortion?

[Lindt]

Quick thoughts:
I think you're a bit off with the amount of dice he'll be rolling. (skill 7 + Imp Bow of 5 + Enhanced Articulation 1 = 13).
Also how's a str 12 (total) using a str 14 bow?

**edit**
Living Focus? What is that and where is it?

Combat pool

suprathyroid gland and the combat drugs

SotA '64 pg 67


And there is no way in the 9 hells that anything relating to move by wire 4 is starting legal. Not a chance. I call shanagins.

[Maelstrome]

When you're making up your own rules, you can't consider a character game breaking.

right you are my good man. and seeing as i allow such monstrocities in my games i generally dont consider anything game breaking because it doesnt break my game.

Baroque? what is this and where can I find it in the books so I can read up on it?
Also Distortion?

the baroque are of my design. distortion is a baroque stat similar to magic or resonance that checks and limits baroque powers.

the baroque are fun to fool around with or even if you are very serious they still add a lot to the game. they also make great recurring badguys. i have been using them for almost a year now and have had no problems. like i said before, the game only breaks as much as the gm lets it. how do the rest of you define game breaking? to me its disrupting the flow of the game.

[Lordmalachdrim]

That would explain the Str increase enough to fit the bow thanks, as would the combat pool though I wasn't looking at that since it's available for a lot of stuff in combat and could be used on just about anything.

As for SotA 64 didn't even think of that book since I've been busy brushing up on my early SR world history (campaign I've just started is set 2050). I'll have to read up on it and see just how nasty it is.

[Lordmalachdrim]

right you are my good man. and seeing as i allow such monstrocities in my games i generally dont consider anything game breaking because it doesnt break my game.



the baroque are of my design. distortion is a baroque stat similar to magic or resonance that checks and limits baroque powers.

the baroque are fun to fool around with or even if you are very serious they still add a lot to the game. they also make great recurring badguys. i have been using them for almost a year now and have had no problems. like i said before, the game only breaks as much as the gm lets it. how do the rest of you define game breaking? to me its disrupting the flow of the game.

I'm pretty much the same. As long as we're having fun and enjoying it, it's a good game. We enjoy 3rd ed (and don't seem to have the problems I've seen others complain about). We tried SR 4 and just couldn't get past the mechanics enough to enjoy it. Maybe 4th is too simple, after all we're all HackMaster fans as well (though we enjoy WFRP too so maybe not).

[Maelstrome]

here is my first presentation of the rules. there is enough here to run baroque in your games but its out of date. if anyone is actually interested ill write up my more recent version.

http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=23194&hl

[Chibu]

Yeah, for the most part, if you stay in the rules (we pretty exclusively play SR2, but 3 is the same) there isn't really any way to make anything game-breaking. We generally leave Availability to GM discretion, though we try not to start with anything stupid. And unless a GM is using House Rules or allowing things like Insect Shamans and Vampires, everything is generally pretty balanced. Sure, you can Have a HVAR with no recoil on Full Auto if you remember to but the under-barrel weight (or tie on a rock). And sure you can roll 10 dice to attack and do 10D base damage easily,

CODE

Troll Physical Adept:
Skill: Unarmed Combat: 6
Power: +4 dice Unarmed Combat
Power: Killing Hands (D)
Strength: 10
Body: 11 (12 for damage)

and that's not even trying. You can do it better with 'ware (Isn't that the motto of Shadowrun?), but it's not really important. The point is, Your Troll with 10 strength and 12 Body Probably has a Willpower or Intelligence of 2 (or even 1...) So, Jim the corp Minimum Wage mage, can snap off a Mana Bolt or a Chaos spell to disable him without breaking a sweat. So in short, breaking isn't really what the game does. You can bend it there and back again, but unless you add silly things, like house rules that are not in the spirit of Awakened Cyberpunk, it's a pretty solid system.

That's why we play Shadowrun (well, that and because the world is cool). Thanks FASA! =D

[Psikerlord]

The starting broken character in SR3 is the magician who has 5 or 6 maximum force elementals bound to him. Although probably not strictly "starting" character (there might be a limit to how many and what force spirits you can begin with? can't rem), as soon as the game starts (or once he has a bit of cash), he can summon up his spirits. There is almost no foe for early campaign who can handle fighting off 6 max force elementals. Guns are useless, they manifest inside and neutralise vehicles, a couple of adepts might put up a quick fight but will go down, and enemy mages don't have enough mojo to take on so many magical foes at once. These elementals are of course in addition to the rest of the team, who are mercilessly targetting the foe's magic users. So that's my two cents. A elemental summoner can be broken (just about) "out of the box". And yes, I've had it happen in my own game. His name was Apu, yes Indian, yes modelled after the simpsons character. (in simpsons voice) "Hello Mr Johnson. Mr name is Apu. I do the magics. Thank you come again." This quickly lead to a houserule on spirit summoning. At least in SR4, you have the -2 dice penalty (optional rule) per spirit for each bound spirit rule, and it is more difficult (I think) to bind a powerful spirit in the first place. Also, as already posted above, trolls with bows and dikote arrows doing more damage than a panther assault cannon... What were they smokin'? Thankfully fixed in SR4 (bow strength cap, reduced twice, started at 12 I think then errata'd to 8, or something).

[Stahlseele]

Comabt Character
Built using 126 points in SR3 Points-System

Edges:
Ambidexterity 3 (6BP)
Aptitude Clubs (4BP)
Bonus Attribute Body(2BP)
Bonus Attribute Inteli(2BP)
Bonus Attribute Qckn(2BP)
Sum: 16 BP

Flaws:
Bad Karma (-5BP)
Cursed Karma (-6BP)
Allergy Uncommon and severe Citrus Fruit (-4BP)
Cortex Bomb Area (-6BP)
Combat Monster (-1BP)
Sum: -22BP

MK1:
Dwarf: 5BP
Magic Ki-Mage 30BP
24 Attribute Points 48BP
18 Skill Points 18BP
650k Nuyen 25BP

Attributes A/E/R:
Body: 4/5/6
Strength: 4/4/6
Quickness: 4/5/5
Charisma: 3/3/3
Intewlligence: 4/5/5
Willpower: 5/5/6
Sums: 24/27/31
Legend:
A: Attribute Points
E: Edge Points
R: Race Points
Attributes under R are relevant for Skill-Purchase

Magic: 6(3)
Essence: 6
Reaction: 5
Initiative: 5+1d6
Combatpool: 8
Spell Pool: 4

Skills/Level/Cost
Arnis De Mano/3/3BP
- Body Contact/2BP
- Body Contact (Clubs)/2BP
Clubs:/6/6BP
Sorcery(Spelldefense)2(4)/3BP
Etiquette(Street) 1(3)/2BP
Sum: 18BP

Ki-Powers:
Magical Talent(volountary geas) Level 3 cost 2,25 Power Points
Improved Ability Clubs(volountary geas) Level 6 cost 2,25 Power Points
Counterstrike (volountary geas) 1,5 Power Points
Sums: 6 Power Points used
Hint: Magical Talent Level 3 means 18 Spell-Points

Gear: Sai for 110 Yen
Weapon Focus (Sai) Force 6 for 640.110 Nuyen
Rapid Transit Jump Heavy for 550 Nuyen
Helmet for 55 Nuyen
forearm Guards for 275
FFBA Full for 2200 Nuyen
Actioneer Longcoat for 1650 Nuyen
Lower Lifestyle 5 Months for 5000 Nuyen
Sums: 649,950 Nuyen
Hint: Focus is bound with the 18 Spell Points from Magical Talent

Armor:
Ballistic 5
Impact Ranged 7
Impact Close 8

Attackdice for "Main-Stick"
Skill: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum: 9
Weapon-Focus: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum: 9
Improved Ability: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum: 9
Sums up to: 18 / 9 / 27
Exception:
Disarmattempt against Close Combat Weapons with reach 1 or 0
Sai main Hand: 2 Off Hand: 1 Sum: 3
Sums up to: 20 / 10 / 30

Defencedice for "Main-stick"
As Attack Main Hand 18 Off Hand 9 Sum: 27
Counterstrike Main Hand 4 Off Hand 2 Sum: 6
Sums up to 22 / 11 / 33
Exception:
Disarmattempt against close combar weapons with reach 1 or 0
Sai main hand2 off hand 1 Sum: 3
Sums up to 24 / 12 / 36
All Combat Actions with "Main-Stick" against Base target Number of 3
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Chibu]

(truncated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

We recommend that players should not take more than 6 Build Points of Edges, nor more than 6 points of Flaws.

While not a hard and fast rule, 22 is a bit much, and makes him not really at the level of a starting character as he's made with much higher build points. Also:

You chase the guy into a local grocery store. He runs down the Produce Isle (A successful perception check tells you this is isle 3). As you round the corner, a store guard tackles you. Since it was unexpected, you stumble backwards and break the Grapefruit stand. You're now covered in parts of grapefruit and juice. You have 30 seconds to clean yourself off before you die.

[The Jake]

WAY WAY over the starting avil limit. Never mind the cash limit, and build point limit. And what the heck is enhanced aim cyberware? Or increased aim adept skills?
And what, no smart link and ranger finder?

Personally, I LOLed at the MBW4 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

- J.

[Stahlseele]

Mark 2:

126 BP
5 BP Dwarf
30BP Ki-Mage
40BP 20 Attribute Points
21BP 21 Skill Points
30BP 1 Million nuyen

Attributes: A / E / R / B
Body: 3 / 4 / 5 / 5
Strength: 4 / 4 / 6 / 6
Quickness: 3 / 4 / 4 / 5
Charisma: 3 / 3 / 3 / 3
Intelligence: 2 / 3 / 3 / 5
Willpower: 5 / 5 / 6 / 6
Sums to: 20 / 23 / 27 / 30
Legend:
A = Attribute
E = Edges
R = Race
B = Bioware
Hint: Numbers in Collumn B are relevant for buying Skills

Magic 6[4]
Essence: 5,05
Reaction: 5
Initiative: 5+1d6
Combat Pool: 8
Task-Pool for intelligence Stuff: 1

Implants:
Enhanced Artwinculation BioI: 0,6 and 40k Nuyen
Cerebral Booster Level 2: BioI: 0,8 and 110k Nuyen
Muscle Toner Level 1: BioI: 0,4 and 25k Nuyen
Reflexrecorder (Sai) BioI: 0,1 and 10k Nuyen
Sums up to BioI of 1,9 and 185k Nuyen
Hint: Magic Loss due to Bioware: 0,95=1

Skills:
Arnis De Mano Level 3 Cost 3BP
- Body Contact Cost 2BP
- Body Contact(clubs) Cost 2BP
Clubs Level 6 Cost 6 BP
Clubs B/R Level 1 Cost 1BP
Sorcery(SpellDefense) 2(4) Cost 3BP
Stealth(Sneaking) 1(3) Cost 2BP
Etiquette(Street) 1(3) Cost 2BP
Sums up to 21 BP used for Skills

Ki-Powers:
Magical Talent(volountary Geas) Level 6 Cost 4,5 Power Points
Improved Ability Clubs (volountary Geas) Level 4 Cost 1,5 Power-Points
Sums up to 6 Power Points used
hint: Magical Talent Level 6 means 36 Spell Points of which 12 Points are used like this:
1. 3 Points for Joining Magical Group(the two standard connections)
2. 9 Points for Group Initiation with Ordeal OATH
Learned Metatech: Attunement(Item)
The Won Power-Point goes into:
Counter Strike (volountary Geas) Level 2 for 0,75 Power-Points
Improved Sense: flash Compensation for 0,25 Power-Points
And that is again one used Power-Point

Hint: Because of his Implants, the Mark 2 has a Magic Loss of 1 Point and his preferred Magical Talent is allready used with Geas, he can't compensate the Magical Loss with a Geas.
He can't usef Magical Talent worth at least 1 Power Point, which is TWO levels.
This Means he has an effective Magical Talent of 4 instead of 6.
He still has 24 Spell-Points to be used as needed.

Gear:
Sai for 110 Nuyen
Weaponfocus Level 6 for 640,110 Nuyen
Rapid Transit Jump Heavy for 550 Nuyen
Helmet for 55 Nuyen
forearm Guards for 275 Nuyen
FFBA Full for 2200 Nuyen
Actioneer Longcoat for 1650 Nuyen
Dikote for Sai NOT FOCUS for 4000 Nuyen
Ruthenium-Polymere for his Clothes for 80,000 Nuyen
Should suffice for Coat,Suit, Shoes, Mask and Helmet.
12 Image Scanners for Ruthenium for 60,000 Nuyen
20 Exchange Batteries for Ruthenium for 1,000 Nuyen
Middle Lifestyle 5 months for 25,000 Nuyen
Sums up to 814,950
Spent Nuyen 999,950

hint: The Weapons Focus is bound by the 18 Spellpoints of Magical Talent.
The Left Over 6 Points are used to attune himself to the Focus. Used Objct Resistance of 6 for inbetween of Hand Made Blade(5) and modern Katana(7).
The Weapon-Focus is held in the Off-Hand so the +1 Power of Dikote can apply to the usual Sai. No Effect on how you get your Bonuses for Ambidexterity

Attackdice for "Main.stick"
Skill: 6 Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum 9
Weapon Focus: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum 9
Improved Ability: Main Hand 4 Off Hand 2 Sum 6
Improved Artwinculation: Main Hand 1 - Sum 1
Reflexrecorder: Main Hand 1 - Sum 1
Sums up to 18 / 8 / 26

Exception:
Disarming Attempt against Close Combat Weapon with Reach 1 or 0
Sai Main Hand 2 Off Hand 1 Sum 3
Sums up to 20 / 9 / 29
Hint: one COULD Argue that Artwinculation and Recorder also work on off-hand, but this Breakdown is working with worst case scenario.

Defense Dice for "Main.stick"
Like Attack: Main Hand 18 Off Hand 8 Sum 26
Counter Strike Main Hand 2 Off Hand 1 Sum 3
Sums up to 20 / 9 / 29

Exception:
Disarming Attempt against Close Combat Weapon with Reach 1 or 0.
Sai Main Hand 2 Off Hand 1 Sum 3
Sums up tp 22 / 10 / 32

All Close Combat with Chosen Stick are done with base target number of 2

[Stahlseele]

While not a hard and fast rule, 22 is a bit much, and makes him not really at the level of a starting character as he's made with much higher build points. Also:

You chase the guy into a local grocery store. He runs down the Produce Isle (A successful perception check tells you this is isle 3). As you round the corner, a store guard tackles you. Since it was unexpected, you stumble backwards and break the Grapefruit stand. You're now covered in parts of grapefruit and juice. You have 30 seconds to clean yourself off before you die.

Atlas Shrugged.
It's like the other Uber Builts.
AND I JUST TRANSLATED THESE BUILTS!
I HAVE NOT DONE THEM MYSELF!