Characters that break the game, I want to see some of these at generation monsters. |
Characters that break the game, I want to see some of these at generation monsters. |
May 14 2009, 02:15 PM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 22-August 03 From: Central New York Member No.: 5,531 |
I've been running Shadowrun though many editions and I've yet to have a player break a character at generation (before the release of 4th). After extremely long campaigns...yes. So if you've got a broken guy lets see him in detail. Shadowrun 3 only.
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May 14 2009, 02:46 PM
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#2
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...gotta hit the archives, but had a couple "out of the "box uber-runners in my time as GM. Give me a little time to hunt them down...er... up.
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May 14 2009, 04:13 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
Not seen you in a while KK. Good to see you're still about!
re: OP, I've seen some pretty obscene stuff out of the box in SR3, but whether they're game breaking or not, I don't know. |
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May 14 2009, 04:41 PM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Aye, same here. To be honest, I don't know what you'd consider gamebreaking, out of the box stuff.
I did see a few in my time, and make a few when i was bored. But again, I don't know if you'd consider them gamebreaking. |
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May 14 2009, 04:48 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 14-August 08 Member No.: 16,237 |
in my experience as a gm characters are only as broken as the gm lets them be. ive only seen characters be game breaking when the gm cant keep up. ive had several powerful characters in my games and ive never considered them game breaking.
now im sure my baroque will be considered game breaking by your standards. especially because i doubt you have the baroque in your shadowrun. BEHOLD. The Coffin Man coffinman baroque body 4 strength 6 (10) quickness6(14) charisma 2 intelligence3 willpower3 reaction magic6 essence 6 distortion8 adept powers increased aim 6 improved heavyweapons6 nervestrike mysticarmor1 baroques movebywire 4 (7 essence) increased aim6 (1.5 essence) claymore str+3s (1.5 essence) muscle augmentation 4(1.6 essence) muscletoner 4(1.6 essence) minigun 7s 15 shots(3.25 essence) 100 bullets (.5 essence) optical magnification3(.2essence) |
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May 14 2009, 05:50 PM
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#6
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
That one is not game breaking, that one is RULES BREAKING.
As for Game Breaking, these are SR4 only: I think you wanna look up the ultimate mundane climber, a Troll that rolls 40 to 45 Dice on Climbing checks. Or the Pornomancer, 40 to 55 dice in seduction or something like that. Then there's Mr.Lucky and the Long-Shot-Rules and general uses/abuses of Edge. There was some sort of Metal-Storm-Character around. 4 or 6 Arms and could do Long Bursts from modded SMG's with every arm with a dicepool of 15 to 20 . . all at once . . Posession Based Summonners with Bloodzilla or a Succubus. Or Brick, the Armor-Troll. 40 to 50 dice for soaking Damage. Troll Throwing Adepts able to throw Babies through armored Police-Cars. Or the Skill-Monster who can have every single skill in the Book after only 2 Days of in Game time for about 10% of the usual Price. My personal Built, an adaption of the BrickTroll. Surged Centaur. 6 Arms, 4 Legs, Head and Torso, all cyber-Limbs, with Skimmer Discs, full Armor Potential that would make some LAV's proud. Also, Cyber-Zombie so pretty evil Attribute Limits and the ability to kick Spirit-Butt too. I call him Binky. But he's not as per the Rules. Well, unless you allow Cybermancy of that Magnitude. I'll have to Dig up the Sr3 Starting Character with 30 dice in close Combat. |
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May 14 2009, 06:09 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 14-August 08 Member No.: 16,237 |
That one is not game breaking, that one is RULES BREAKING. what rules did i break? in my setting and games that character is legal. unless i missed something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) |
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May 14 2009, 06:22 PM
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#8
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
This isnt totally maxed out, but I dont have an hour to polish it.
Troll Bow Adept (can throw 20 dice with a weapon with the same power as a panther cannon in near slience) Str 10 (12) Qui 5 Int 4 Will 5 Projective Weapons (Bow) 5/7 Ranger-X bow for str 14 (18M) + Ex explosive arrowhead (20m) Imp Bow 5 Imp Physical att (above race mod) 2 Imp Sense: Vis Mag 3 Living Focus (to be used with enhanced aim or imp reflexes) *edit* Enhanced articulation Suprathyriod Gland And toss in some combat drugs. This post has been edited by Lindt: May 14 2009, 06:41 PM |
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May 14 2009, 06:26 PM
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#9
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
what rules did i break? in my setting and games that character is legal. unless i missed something. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/rotfl.gif) WAY WAY over the starting avil limit. Never mind the cash limit, and build point limit. And what the heck is enhanced aim cyberware? Or increased aim adept skills? And what, no smart link and ranger finder? |
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May 14 2009, 06:52 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 22-August 03 From: Central New York Member No.: 5,531 |
This isnt totally maxed out, but I dont have an hour to polish it. Troll Bow Adept (can throw 20 dice with a weapon with the same power as a panther cannon in near slience) Str 10 (12) Qui 5 Int 4 Will 5 Projective Weapons (Bow) 5/7 Ranger-X bow for str 14 (18M) + Ex explosive arrowhead (20m) Imp Bow 5 Imp Physical att (above race mod) 2 Imp Sense: Vis Mag 3 Living Focus (to be used with enhanced aim or imp reflexes) *edit* Enhanced articulation Suprathyriod Gland And toss in some combat drugs. Quick thoughts: I think you're a bit off with the amount of dice he'll be rolling. (skill 7 + Imp Bow of 5 + Enhanced Articulation 1 = 13). Also how's a str 12 (total) using a str 14 bow? **edit** Living Focus? What is that and where is it? |
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May 14 2009, 07:03 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 14-August 08 Member No.: 16,237 |
WAY WAY over the starting avil limit. Never mind the cash limit, and build point limit. And what the heck is enhanced aim cyberware? Or increased aim adept skills? And what, no smart link and ranger finder? he has no cyberware or bioware. all of that stuff under the heading baroques are baroque powers. he is a third edition priority character. he actually has no money spent on him. baroque cannot take any ware. but they can mimic it with baroque powers. enhanced aim is an adept power that lowers the target number to hit with ranged weapons. |
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May 14 2009, 07:06 PM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,973 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Fairfax, VA Member No.: 13,526 |
When you're making up your own rules, you can't consider a character game breaking.
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May 14 2009, 07:07 PM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 22-August 03 From: Central New York Member No.: 5,531 |
Baroque? what is this and where can I find it in the books so I can read up on it?
Also Distortion? |
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May 14 2009, 07:20 PM
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#14
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Quick thoughts: I think you're a bit off with the amount of dice he'll be rolling. (skill 7 + Imp Bow of 5 + Enhanced Articulation 1 = 13). Also how's a str 12 (total) using a str 14 bow? **edit** Living Focus? What is that and where is it? Combat pool suprathyroid gland and the combat drugs SotA '64 pg 67 And there is no way in the 9 hells that anything relating to move by wire 4 is starting legal. Not a chance. I call shanagins. |
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May 14 2009, 07:24 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 14-August 08 Member No.: 16,237 |
When you're making up your own rules, you can't consider a character game breaking. right you are my good man. and seeing as i allow such monstrocities in my games i generally dont consider anything game breaking because it doesnt break my game. Baroque? what is this and where can I find it in the books so I can read up on it? Also Distortion? the baroque are of my design. distortion is a baroque stat similar to magic or resonance that checks and limits baroque powers. the baroque are fun to fool around with or even if you are very serious they still add a lot to the game. they also make great recurring badguys. i have been using them for almost a year now and have had no problems. like i said before, the game only breaks as much as the gm lets it. how do the rest of you define game breaking? to me its disrupting the flow of the game. |
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May 14 2009, 07:27 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 22-August 03 From: Central New York Member No.: 5,531 |
That would explain the Str increase enough to fit the bow thanks, as would the combat pool though I wasn't looking at that since it's available for a lot of stuff in combat and could be used on just about anything.
As for SotA 64 didn't even think of that book since I've been busy brushing up on my early SR world history (campaign I've just started is set 2050). I'll have to read up on it and see just how nasty it is. |
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May 14 2009, 07:31 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 88 Joined: 22-August 03 From: Central New York Member No.: 5,531 |
right you are my good man. and seeing as i allow such monstrocities in my games i generally dont consider anything game breaking because it doesnt break my game. the baroque are of my design. distortion is a baroque stat similar to magic or resonance that checks and limits baroque powers. the baroque are fun to fool around with or even if you are very serious they still add a lot to the game. they also make great recurring badguys. i have been using them for almost a year now and have had no problems. like i said before, the game only breaks as much as the gm lets it. how do the rest of you define game breaking? to me its disrupting the flow of the game. I'm pretty much the same. As long as we're having fun and enjoying it, it's a good game. We enjoy 3rd ed (and don't seem to have the problems I've seen others complain about). We tried SR 4 and just couldn't get past the mechanics enough to enjoy it. Maybe 4th is too simple, after all we're all HackMaster fans as well (though we enjoy WFRP too so maybe not). |
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May 14 2009, 07:42 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 14-August 08 Member No.: 16,237 |
here is my first presentation of the rules. there is enough here to run baroque in your games but its out of date. if anyone is actually interested ill write up my more recent version.
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=23194&hl |
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May 14 2009, 08:05 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 494 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Amazonia Member No.: 7,102 |
Yeah, for the most part, if you stay in the rules (we pretty exclusively play SR2, but 3 is the same) there isn't really any way to make anything game-breaking. We generally leave Availability to GM discretion, though we try not to start with anything stupid. And unless a GM is using House Rules or allowing things like Insect Shamans and Vampires, everything is generally pretty balanced. Sure, you can Have a HVAR with no recoil on Full Auto if you remember to but the under-barrel weight (or tie on a rock). And sure you can roll 10 dice to attack and do 10D base damage easily,
CODE Troll Physical Adept: Skill: Unarmed Combat: 6 Power: +4 dice Unarmed Combat Power: Killing Hands (D) Strength: 10 Body: 11 (12 for damage) and that's not even trying. You can do it better with 'ware (Isn't that the motto of Shadowrun?), but it's not really important. The point is, Your Troll with 10 strength and 12 Body Probably has a Willpower or Intelligence of 2 (or even 1...) So, Jim the corp Minimum Wage mage, can snap off a Mana Bolt or a Chaos spell to disable him without breaking a sweat. So in short, breaking isn't really what the game does. You can bend it there and back again, but unless you add silly things, like house rules that are not in the spirit of Awakened Cyberpunk, it's a pretty solid system. That's why we play Shadowrun (well, that and because the world is cool). Thanks FASA! =D |
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May 14 2009, 08:18 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 20-April 09 From: Sydney 'plex Member No.: 17,094 |
The starting broken character in SR3 is the magician who has 5 or 6 maximum force elementals bound to him. Although probably not strictly "starting" character (there might be a limit to how many and what force spirits you can begin with? can't rem), as soon as the game starts (or once he has a bit of cash), he can summon up his spirits. There is almost no foe for early campaign who can handle fighting off 6 max force elementals. Guns are useless, they manifest inside and neutralise vehicles, a couple of adepts might put up a quick fight but will go down, and enemy mages don't have enough mojo to take on so many magical foes at once. These elementals are of course in addition to the rest of the team, who are mercilessly targetting the foe's magic users. So that's my two cents. A elemental summoner can be broken (just about) "out of the box". And yes, I've had it happen in my own game. His name was Apu, yes Indian, yes modelled after the simpsons character. (in simpsons voice) "Hello Mr Johnson. Mr name is Apu. I do the magics. Thank you come again." This quickly lead to a houserule on spirit summoning. At least in SR4, you have the -2 dice penalty (optional rule) per spirit for each bound spirit rule, and it is more difficult (I think) to bind a powerful spirit in the first place. Also, as already posted above, trolls with bows and dikote arrows doing more damage than a panther assault cannon... What were they smokin'? Thankfully fixed in SR4 (bow strength cap, reduced twice, started at 12 I think then errata'd to 8, or something).
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May 14 2009, 10:04 PM
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#21
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Comabt Character
Built using 126 points in SR3 Points-System Edges: Ambidexterity 3 (6BP) Aptitude Clubs (4BP) Bonus Attribute Body(2BP) Bonus Attribute Inteli(2BP) Bonus Attribute Qckn(2BP) Sum: 16 BP Flaws: Bad Karma (-5BP) Cursed Karma (-6BP) Allergy Uncommon and severe Citrus Fruit (-4BP) Cortex Bomb Area (-6BP) Combat Monster (-1BP) Sum: -22BP MK1: Dwarf: 5BP Magic Ki-Mage 30BP 24 Attribute Points 48BP 18 Skill Points 18BP 650k Nuyen 25BP Attributes A/E/R: Body: 4/5/6 Strength: 4/4/6 Quickness: 4/5/5 Charisma: 3/3/3 Intewlligence: 4/5/5 Willpower: 5/5/6 Sums: 24/27/31 Legend: A: Attribute Points E: Edge Points R: Race Points Attributes under R are relevant for Skill-Purchase Magic: 6(3) Essence: 6 Reaction: 5 Initiative: 5+1d6 Combatpool: 8 Spell Pool: 4 Skills/Level/Cost Arnis De Mano/3/3BP - Body Contact/2BP - Body Contact (Clubs)/2BP Clubs:/6/6BP Sorcery(Spelldefense)2(4)/3BP Etiquette(Street) 1(3)/2BP Sum: 18BP Ki-Powers: Magical Talent(volountary geas) Level 3 cost 2,25 Power Points Improved Ability Clubs(volountary geas) Level 6 cost 2,25 Power Points Counterstrike (volountary geas) 1,5 Power Points Sums: 6 Power Points used Hint: Magical Talent Level 3 means 18 Spell-Points Gear: Sai for 110 Yen Weapon Focus (Sai) Force 6 for 640.110 Nuyen Rapid Transit Jump Heavy for 550 Nuyen Helmet for 55 Nuyen forearm Guards for 275 FFBA Full for 2200 Nuyen Actioneer Longcoat for 1650 Nuyen Lower Lifestyle 5 Months for 5000 Nuyen Sums: 649,950 Nuyen Hint: Focus is bound with the 18 Spell Points from Magical Talent Armor: Ballistic 5 Impact Ranged 7 Impact Close 8 Attackdice for "Main-Stick" Skill: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum: 9 Weapon-Focus: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum: 9 Improved Ability: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum: 9 Sums up to: 18 / 9 / 27 Exception: Disarmattempt against Close Combat Weapons with reach 1 or 0 Sai main Hand: 2 Off Hand: 1 Sum: 3 Sums up to: 20 / 10 / 30 Defencedice for "Main-stick" As Attack Main Hand 18 Off Hand 9 Sum: 27 Counterstrike Main Hand 4 Off Hand 2 Sum: 6 Sums up to 22 / 11 / 33 Exception: Disarmattempt against close combar weapons with reach 1 or 0 Sai main hand2 off hand 1 Sum: 3 Sums up to 24 / 12 / 36 All Combat Actions with "Main-Stick" against Base target Number of 3 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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May 14 2009, 10:16 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 494 Joined: 19-February 05 From: Amazonia Member No.: 7,102 |
(truncated (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ) QUOTE (Shadowrun Companion 3 p.13) We recommend that players should not take more than 6 Build Points of Edges, nor more than 6 points of Flaws. While not a hard and fast rule, 22 is a bit much, and makes him not really at the level of a starting character as he's made with much higher build points. Also: You chase the guy into a local grocery store. He runs down the Produce Isle (A successful perception check tells you this is isle 3). As you round the corner, a store guard tackles you. Since it was unexpected, you stumble backwards and break the Grapefruit stand. You're now covered in parts of grapefruit and juice. You have 30 seconds to clean yourself off before you die. |
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May 14 2009, 10:32 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,849 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Melbourne, Australia Member No.: 872 |
WAY WAY over the starting avil limit. Never mind the cash limit, and build point limit. And what the heck is enhanced aim cyberware? Or increased aim adept skills? And what, no smart link and ranger finder? Personally, I LOLed at the MBW4 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) - J. |
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May 14 2009, 10:42 PM
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#24
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
Mark 2:
126 BP 5 BP Dwarf 30BP Ki-Mage 40BP 20 Attribute Points 21BP 21 Skill Points 30BP 1 Million nuyen Attributes: A / E / R / B Body: 3 / 4 / 5 / 5 Strength: 4 / 4 / 6 / 6 Quickness: 3 / 4 / 4 / 5 Charisma: 3 / 3 / 3 / 3 Intelligence: 2 / 3 / 3 / 5 Willpower: 5 / 5 / 6 / 6 Sums to: 20 / 23 / 27 / 30 Legend: A = Attribute E = Edges R = Race B = Bioware Hint: Numbers in Collumn B are relevant for buying Skills Magic 6[4] Essence: 5,05 Reaction: 5 Initiative: 5+1d6 Combat Pool: 8 Task-Pool for intelligence Stuff: 1 Implants: Enhanced Artwinculation BioI: 0,6 and 40k Nuyen Cerebral Booster Level 2: BioI: 0,8 and 110k Nuyen Muscle Toner Level 1: BioI: 0,4 and 25k Nuyen Reflexrecorder (Sai) BioI: 0,1 and 10k Nuyen Sums up to BioI of 1,9 and 185k Nuyen Hint: Magic Loss due to Bioware: 0,95=1 Skills: Arnis De Mano Level 3 Cost 3BP - Body Contact Cost 2BP - Body Contact(clubs) Cost 2BP Clubs Level 6 Cost 6 BP Clubs B/R Level 1 Cost 1BP Sorcery(SpellDefense) 2(4) Cost 3BP Stealth(Sneaking) 1(3) Cost 2BP Etiquette(Street) 1(3) Cost 2BP Sums up to 21 BP used for Skills Ki-Powers: Magical Talent(volountary Geas) Level 6 Cost 4,5 Power Points Improved Ability Clubs (volountary Geas) Level 4 Cost 1,5 Power-Points Sums up to 6 Power Points used hint: Magical Talent Level 6 means 36 Spell Points of which 12 Points are used like this: 1. 3 Points for Joining Magical Group(the two standard connections) 2. 9 Points for Group Initiation with Ordeal OATH Learned Metatech: Attunement(Item) The Won Power-Point goes into: Counter Strike (volountary Geas) Level 2 for 0,75 Power-Points Improved Sense: flash Compensation for 0,25 Power-Points And that is again one used Power-Point Hint: Because of his Implants, the Mark 2 has a Magic Loss of 1 Point and his preferred Magical Talent is allready used with Geas, he can't compensate the Magical Loss with a Geas. He can't usef Magical Talent worth at least 1 Power Point, which is TWO levels. This Means he has an effective Magical Talent of 4 instead of 6. He still has 24 Spell-Points to be used as needed. Gear: Sai for 110 Nuyen Weaponfocus Level 6 for 640,110 Nuyen Rapid Transit Jump Heavy for 550 Nuyen Helmet for 55 Nuyen forearm Guards for 275 Nuyen FFBA Full for 2200 Nuyen Actioneer Longcoat for 1650 Nuyen Dikote for Sai NOT FOCUS for 4000 Nuyen Ruthenium-Polymere for his Clothes for 80,000 Nuyen Should suffice for Coat,Suit, Shoes, Mask and Helmet. 12 Image Scanners for Ruthenium for 60,000 Nuyen 20 Exchange Batteries for Ruthenium for 1,000 Nuyen Middle Lifestyle 5 months for 25,000 Nuyen Sums up to 814,950 Spent Nuyen 999,950 hint: The Weapons Focus is bound by the 18 Spellpoints of Magical Talent. The Left Over 6 Points are used to attune himself to the Focus. Used Objct Resistance of 6 for inbetween of Hand Made Blade(5) and modern Katana(7). The Weapon-Focus is held in the Off-Hand so the +1 Power of Dikote can apply to the usual Sai. No Effect on how you get your Bonuses for Ambidexterity Attackdice for "Main.stick" Skill: 6 Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum 9 Weapon Focus: Main Hand 6 Off Hand 3 Sum 9 Improved Ability: Main Hand 4 Off Hand 2 Sum 6 Improved Artwinculation: Main Hand 1 - Sum 1 Reflexrecorder: Main Hand 1 - Sum 1 Sums up to 18 / 8 / 26 Exception: Disarming Attempt against Close Combat Weapon with Reach 1 or 0 Sai Main Hand 2 Off Hand 1 Sum 3 Sums up to 20 / 9 / 29 Hint: one COULD Argue that Artwinculation and Recorder also work on off-hand, but this Breakdown is working with worst case scenario. Defense Dice for "Main.stick" Like Attack: Main Hand 18 Off Hand 8 Sum 26 Counter Strike Main Hand 2 Off Hand 1 Sum 3 Sums up to 20 / 9 / 29 Exception: Disarming Attempt against Close Combat Weapon with Reach 1 or 0. Sai Main Hand 2 Off Hand 1 Sum 3 Sums up tp 22 / 10 / 32 All Close Combat with Chosen Stick are done with base target number of 2 |
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May 14 2009, 10:43 PM
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#25
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The ShadowComedian Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 14,538 Joined: 3-October 07 From: Hamburg, AGS Member No.: 13,525 |
While not a hard and fast rule, 22 is a bit much, and makes him not really at the level of a starting character as he's made with much higher build points. Also: You chase the guy into a local grocery store. He runs down the Produce Isle (A successful perception check tells you this is isle 3). As you round the corner, a store guard tackles you. Since it was unexpected, you stumble backwards and break the Grapefruit stand. You're now covered in parts of grapefruit and juice. You have 30 seconds to clean yourself off before you die. Atlas Shrugged. It's like the other Uber Builts. AND I JUST TRANSLATED THESE BUILTS! I HAVE NOT DONE THEM MYSELF! |
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