[SR4] - Infected Options

[Machiavelli]

Question: on the last run, i killed some vampires and took blood-samples from them. I play an elven-char and basically I wanted to infect myself with the virus to become a banshee. According to the runners companion, being a vampire/banshee/whatsoever is a quality. According to the core-book, qualities can be granted by the GM during the game, but you have to pay the karma-costs to gain the benefits. So even if i infect myself successfully, i would have to pay 120 karma (60 karma to become a banshee x2) to "mutate"? Errrrhhh...sounds odd.

[Dragnar]

And keeps people from trying stuff like that to get the goodies for free.
Apart from that, infecting yourself with vampire blood doesn't work anyway, as HMHVV Type I can only be transmitted by virtue of the infection power.

[Machiavelli]

I am a black mage seeking for power. I don´t accept such limitations...baaaah.^^

[Heath Robinson]

Question: on the last run, i killed some vampires and took blood-samples from them. I play an elven-char and basically I wanted to infect myself with the virus to become a banshee. According to the runners companion, being a vampire/banshee/whatsoever is a quality. According to the core-book, qualities can be granted by the GM during the game, but you have to pay the karma-costs to gain the benefits. So even if i infect myself successfully, i would have to pay 120 karma (60 karma to become a banshee x2) to "mutate"? Errrrhhh...sounds odd.

You get the quality and benefits immediately, but the universe begins demanding payments on the loan.

[MKX]

Vrykolakiviridae (HMHVV I) retroviruses are only spread through transmission of bodily fluids (amounts necessary vary and simple contact is not always a guarantee of infection) in conjunction with a vampiric attack. The actual retroviral transformation is triggered when the victim’s life energies are depleted; the dispersal of the victim’s aura is apparently halted and partially reversed by the virus

[Machiavelli]

You are right. I checked the infection power description, but i also noticed that ghouls don´t have the infection power anymore. How do they deal this if a siple contact/injection of the virus ain´t enough?

[Dragnar]

Ghouls are created by another form of HMHVV (Type III, IIRC) which doesn't need the power. See Runner's Companion.
So you could ghoulify yourself with their blood, if you so desire. You'd still have to pay the karma, though.

[Machiavelli]

Yeah, but ghouls stink...really.^^

[HappyDaze]

There's also the fact that - per RC - Vampires and Banshees come from the same type of HMHVV but a different strain. At best, your elf would become a carrier of the vampire strain, but he could in no way benefit from it.

[TBRMInsanity]

I have no idea where people get the diluted ideas on wanting to be a vampire. I will point out that most runner groups should also be trying to stop you from intentionally infecting yourself with any strain of the HMHVV virus. All infected creatures are effectively outlaws in most countries in the SR universe (Asamando being the exception). If the GM is doing their job you should have random slayers coming after you all the time (again another reason your group should be trying to stop you). And if you do get infected your group should be kicking you out for being a dumb @$$. You pull too much attention to yourself and the group as an infected.

[Machiavelli]

I don´t know in which setting you play, but...

1) ...that somebody belongs to the infected is only noticeable through an medical analysis and usually i don´t get into something too often

2) ...even the little characteristics that become visible, are easily to be misinterpreted as cyberware-, bioware-, cosmetic-, surge- or other modifications. Somebody with enlarged canines will only be eye-catching, because he is the only one in the room who looks at least close to normal in comparison with all the other freaks that roam around the SR-universe. (have you ever seen a piture of a troll or an ork?)

3) ...the mutation means power. I just try to play my char. according to its wishes and needs. And you have to admit, that becoming an vampire etc. is a quite quick way to gain a lot of power/advantages.

But to answer your question: most players want to become/play vampires because they think its cool. I want to play one, because after 15 years of shadowrun, i need something new.^^

[Starmage21]

I don´t know in which setting you play, but...

1) ...that somebody belongs to the infected is only noticeable through an medical analysis and usually i don´t get into something too often

2) ...even the little characteristics that become visible, are easily to be misinterpreted as cyberware-, bioware-, cosmetic-, surge- or other modifications. Somebody with enlarged canines will only be eye-catching, because he is the only one in the room who looks at least close to normal in comparison with all the other freaks that roam around the SR-universe. (have you ever seen a piture of a troll or an ork?)

3) ...the mutation means power. I just try to play my char. according to its wishes and needs. And you have to admit, that becoming an vampire etc. is a quite quick way to gain a lot of power/advantages.

But to answer your question: most players want to become/play vampires because they think its cool. I want to play one, because after 15 years of shadowrun, i need something new.^^

The whole feeding thing can really really get in the way. If you dont wanna leave a calling card, you have to have at least that 1 body per run destroyed, and not just left behind. It could amount to some trouble, but probobly is going to only be a little trouble for a well-thought out run.

[Jaid]

I have no idea where people get the diluted ideas on wanting to be a vampire. I will point out that most runner groups should also be trying to stop you from intentionally infecting yourself with any strain of the HMHVV virus. All infected creatures are effectively outlaws in most countries in the SR universe (Asamando being the exception). If the GM is doing their job you should have random slayers coming after you all the time (again another reason your group should be trying to stop you). And if you do get infected your group should be kicking you out for being a dumb @$$. You pull too much attention to yourself and the group as an infected.

1) shadowrunners are outlaws. telling a shadowrunner that he shouldn't become a vampire because it will make them an outlaw is frankly absurd. unless of course you're talking about some part of the world that is ok with breaking and entering, kidnapping, threatening people, murder, theft, assault, blackmail, vandalism/destruction of property, and so forth, but which actually still somehow manages to have any actual laws at all.

2) there should probably be random police/corporate groups coming after you from time to time as well. you're a bloody shadowrunner. you are a professional criminal. you break into secured facilities for a living and shoot people right in the face for money. there are already people looking for your shadowrunner team, and the ghoul hunters are quite frankly the least of your worries. you should spend more time worrying that MCT has decided that the latest shadowrun on their facility fits your MO, and less time worrying that someone is going to try to stab you with a sharpened piece of wood.

The whole feeding thing can really really get in the way. If you dont wanna leave a calling card, you have to have at least that 1 body per run destroyed, and not just left behind. It could amount to some trouble, but probobly is going to only be a little trouble for a well-thought out run.

once per run? did you read the rules? once every 6 months, chummer. a little bit less if you eat someone who has reduced essence. and if that someone is joe sinless ganger who lives out in the barrens, or even bob the mindless ghoul who ambushes people who enter his territory and tries to eat their flesh, odds are good that nobody you should be worried about is going to care all that much. the star doesn't check every person to see if they're missing a pint of blood, or if they had all their essence before they died, particularly if those people are out in the barrens. in fact, if they're out in the barrens, the odds of the star (or anyone else, really) even hearing about the murder and thinking anything of it are pretty slim.

now, don't get me wrong... HMHVV has it's drawbacks (being dual-natured for one) but these are not them.

[Machiavelli]

Yeah, and this can be fixed with masking. ^^ I love the concept.

[Starmage21]

once per run? did you read the rules? once every 6 months, chummer. a little bit less if you eat someone who has reduced essence. and if that someone is joe sinless ganger who lives out in the barrens, or even bob the mindless ghoul who ambushes people who enter his territory and tries to eat their flesh, odds are good that nobody you should be worried about is going to care all that much. the star doesn't check every person to see if they're missing a pint of blood, or if they had all their essence before they died, particularly if those people are out in the barrens. in fact, if they're out in the barrens, the odds of the star (or anyone else, really) even hearing about the murder and thinking anything of it are pretty slim.

now, don't get me wrong... HMHVV has it's drawbacks (being dual-natured for one) but these are not them.

It was meant a little light-heartedly. Obviously you dont need to feed every time to go on a run. Unless your characters wait 6 months to get a job because theyre waiting for a huge payout (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Machiavelli]

Sorry, but since i play SR, the only thing that was always available without wanting it, were dead bodies and useless squatters. Before the people think about a vampire on the loose, they would blame tamanous, other squatters or one of the several hundred critters in the town. Never forget: every critter that exists, seems to have a problem with humanity. ;.)

[Muspellsheimr]

once per run? did you read the rules? once every 6 months, chummer.

For the Essence, yes. Still need 5% of body weight in blood each week, which is still a non-issue if you go to the barrens or know a doc.

now, don't get me wrong... HMHVV has it's drawbacks (being dual-natured for one) but these are not them.

HMHVV I does not impose Dual Natured, & I cannot remember if II does or does not.

[Cochise]

& I cannot remember if II does or does not.

Strain I virus types do not impose dual nature (not even for Nosferati - albeit them being dual beings in previous editions and originally being cretaed by a very different strain than normal vampires)
Strain II virus types do impose it onto Bandersnatch and Loup Garou while Fomoraig aren't dual natured
Strain III [a.k.a. Krieger strain] imposes dual nature on all Ghouls

[MKX]

now, don't get me wrong... HMHVV has it's drawbacks (being dual-natured for one) but these are not them.

Think anyone that can survive past about 50karma of shadowruns is probably pretty qualified to survive as a HMHVV and not get caught out too often, in some cases running like some skinny emo freak, teeth implants and bad hair is probably just fitting in with the scenery.
Sec Guard: It was a vampire!
Lonestar: Yeah, right, what did he look like?
Sec Guard: Tall, skinny, kinda elf-like, wearing black, sharp teeth
Lonestar: ...great that only narrows it down to about 58,000 people in the greater Seattle region.

I sort of understand the long-time player wanting something new as well, given how limited the vamps are in some respects I think its probably best to just have one consigned to the spare character pool for 'special' occassions.

[Rasumichin]

All infected creatures are effectively outlaws in most countries in the SR universe (Asamando being the exception).

Infected are eligible for citizenship in several industrial nations and corporate jurisdictions, including practically all usual SR settings.
This could, especially in cases of vampirism or in conjunction with the carrier quality, effectively come down to a criminal SIN (if you have a SIN in the first place and if you are dumb enough to get your infection registered), but random groups of slayers coming after you aren't that likely anymore.
Well, still more likely than an ork character getting beaten up by humanis thugs, but i wouldn't overemphasize that part unless it's a campaign centering around protecting the local Ghoul ghetto from angry mobs with torches and pitchforks.

1) ...that somebody belongs to the infected is only noticeable through an medical analysis and usually i don´t get into something too often

Or a single hit on an Assensing test, but that can be worked around with aura masking.

[Machiavelli]

We are talking about SR4, one single hit doesn´t show you anything:

The general state of the subject’s health (healthy, injured, ill, etc.).
Th e subject’s general emotional state or impression
(happy, sad, angry).
Whether the subject is mundane or Awakened.

You only know THAT he is sick (and I´m not sure that this infection is a sickness as we understand it at all) not of WHAT.

[Rasumichin]

We are talking about SR4, one single hit doesn´t show you anything:

The general state of the subject’s health (healthy, injured, ill, etc.).
Th e subject’s general emotional state or impression
(happy, sad, angry).
Whether the subject is mundane or Awakened.

You only know THAT he is sick (and I´m not sure that this infection is a sickness as we understand it at all) not of WHAT.

Wait, i was wrong.
You don't even have to make an Assensing test, the condition chamges the aura in such a profound way that it is always visible :

An Infected’s aura always reveals its Infected nature, though
this may be masked by Metamagic as normal.

[Machiavelli]

Iiih...that sucks. Youre right.

[Mongoose]

It probably would have been easier if you'd had a live vampire... just put him in some kind of inescapable "saw" device (preferably one taking advantage of alergies / weakneses) and make him infect you. If he doesn't, kill him. Then repeat the request when he regenerates.

Barring that, maybe its not a vampire that needs to drain your essence to trigger the infection to go active? You could infect yourself with the virus, then find some other way to loose essence.

Or, I'm sure some sort of astral quest(s) or other big mojo could let you (or a powerful spirit you pay control / pay off) mimic the effect of the infection power. I'd imagine working with blood spirits and their home plain could give you some info about HMVV.

[Zaranthan]

Wait, i was wrong.
You don't even have to make an Assensing test, the condition chamges the aura in such a profound way that it is always visible :

The assensing table in the BBB says you need 2 hits to determine "The class of a magical subject (fire elemental, manipulation spell, power focus, and so on)." It's always visible, but that doesn't mean it's obvious. Heck, right in your quote: "this may be masked by Metamagic as normal." Masking adds your initiate grade to the threshold of any assensing test against you. How does that work "as normal" if you don't even have to make a test?