human being born from elven parents, Is it possible? Options

[KCKitsune]

OK everybody, I've got a question for all of you: Is it possible for an elven couple to have a human baby? I know it's possible for Orks to have human babies, who will most likely undergo goblinization, but still it will be a human baby.

Now socially in Tir (either one), if this was to happen what would be the social repercussions to the parents?

[Critias]

Yes, it's still possible but growing statistically less probable (IIRC) as time goes on.

And...it'd depend entirely on what "era" of the Tir it happened in (remember, they've got an Ork running the joint and plenty of other non-Elven metas on the Council right now, so there's probably plenty of anti-Elven backlash going on after recent political goings-on), as well as the social status of the family in question in the first place.

[Kyoto Kid]

...my namseake is one. Born in Salem, TT pre Crash 2.0. Long story (Have a 110 page novella I wrote based on her background).

[Neraph]

Hell, you could have an Ork born of an Elf and a Troll. Think like eye and hair color. One parent has blonde hair, one has brown, the child has red.

Only with tusks and a lot of musculature.

[EKBT81]

Hell, you could have an Ork born of an Elf and a Troll.

Sure?

AFAIK a child of a mixed couple will be the same metatype as one of the parents. The only possibility of a different metatype I recall is same-metatype couples having a human child.

[Neraph]

Sure?

AFAIK a child of a mixed couple will be the same metatype as one of the parents. The only possibility of a different metatype I recall is same-metatype couples having a human child.

Ork-Troll parent coupling results in troll. Ork-Elf coupling results in elf. Said Troll and said elf coupling results in ork.

Unless metatype doesn't follow standard heredity, that is.

[Vermithrax]

Lets not forget that there are children born outside of earth's mana field. Such children are born human.
If the parents were Elf or Dwarf with no other metahuman traits, the child will be human upon returning to earth.
There is a chance that a human born to Ork or Troll parents will goblinize upon returning to earth.

[KCKitsune]

Ork-Troll parent coupling results in troll. Ork-Elf coupling results in elf. Said Troll and said elf coupling results in ork.

Unless metatype doesn't follow standard heredity, that is.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/wobble.gif) ... Neraph, I think you just killed a whole bunch of catgirls* with that statement.



* = When logic is introduced into a fictional universe God kills a catgirl.

[Cain]

Shadowbeat had a section on this. IIRC, any combination was possible, but the practical result was either mother's race, father's race, or in the case of ork or troll, human who would goblinize. The last was becoming more rare. There was another possibility, of genetic reversion to base human; but that mostly pops up with Giants.

[Matsci]

Lets not forget that there are children born outside of earth's mana field. Such children are born human.
If the parents were Elf or Dwarf with no other metahuman traits, the child will be human upon returning to earth.
There is a chance that a human born to Ork or Troll parents will goblinize upon returning to earth.

That brings up the question of what might happen to children born on Mars.

[DireRadiant]

That brings up the question of what might happen to children born on Mars.

I grok it.

[Neraph]

I grok it.

HAHA! Good reference!

Lets not forget that there are children born outside of earth's mana field. Such children are born human.
If the parents were Elf or Dwarf with no other metahuman traits, the child will be human upon returning to earth.
There is a chance that a human born to Ork or Troll parents will goblinize upon returning to earth.

I would have to disagree. Unless they're in deep space, there's still ambient mana. And all we need is a little mana to express. I mean, the moon only has a backround count of -7. I could see people expressing at birth in space, but if they were to Awaken, it would likely not happen until such a time as they returned to a stronger mana field, unless they started at like magic 5.

Or SURGE. If they were to express SURGE charactaristics, those would likely be dormant until they entered a stronger mana field. But the baseline metatype I don't see requiring that much ambient mana to express.

[Vermithrax]

I would have to disagree. Unless they're in deep space, there's still ambient mana. And all we need is a little mana to express. I mean, the moon only has a backround count of -7. I could see people expressing at birth in space, but if they were to Awaken, it would likely not happen until such a time as they returned to a stronger mana field, unless they started at like magic 5.

Or SURGE. If they were to express SURGE charactaristics, those would likely be dormant until they entered a stronger mana field. But the baseline metatype I don't see requiring that much ambient mana to express.

I was mainly referring to children born on stations in full mana warp. As to children born Lunar or Martian?
I guess that it really comes down to what the GMs opinion is. So far, there hasnt been anything canon stated about what level the manafield has to be at to express metagenes.
I do agree on the SURGE characteristics though.

[Chibu]

Ya know. I agree with most of the 'born in space = human' thing, with an exception. What probably actually makes the difference is whether or not a certain period of fetal development happened while on Earth. Since, as far as I know, there isn't anything written about WHEN metagenetics begin expressing during fetal development, it's hard to say. My personal opinion would be either at (or within a day of) conception or at a specific time, probably around three months or so. If after this time, the mother leaves Earth for said space platform, it should have no impact at all on the metatype of the child.

Correct me if I'm wrong but, When an Elf goes to Zurich Orbital, he or she does not turn back into a human once there. Nor has there ever been a case of a metahuman ungoblinizing into a human. Pointy ears don't simply fall off. Therefore, once that pivotal stage in fetal development occurs, the child will be born as his or her genetically specified metatype no matter where the actual BIRTH occurs. It's not like an elf come out and then its ears go point right then or anything. Not that it's actually ever going to come up or anything (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif)

(Seriously, I've read alot of books about pregnancy over the last several months, as my wife is rather pregnant at the moment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

[BIG BAD BEESTE]

You can also extrapolate that elves and dwarfs will express in a lower intensity manafield than orks and trolls based upon the fact that Goblinisation didn't happen until 2021 - ten years after the initial "Awakening" and UGE.

I also agree with the point about metegenes developing in the unborn child and that when that child comes to term it is whatever those genes express. The only way around that would be for the child to be conceived in a manaless environment and then be introduced to one later and thus express via Goblinisation. If you take the precedent that dwarfs and elves don't goblinise, only orks and trolls (and perhaps changelings) could theoretically "express their true forms" as they enter the manafield environment.

[Chibu]

If you take the precedent that dwarfs and elves don't goblinise

Well, except in that one novel rofl. And as we all know, the shadowrun novels are what MAKE cannon ^-^
[/sarcasm]

But, seriously, in one of the novels, for no good reason, they were talking about this dwarf, and said something to the effect of "and of course he goblinized, since he's a dwarf"... *sigh* Otherwise it was pretty good. Editor = fail.

[TBRMInsanity]

Augmentation goes into detail about Astral DNA. Basically all metatypes have the same DNA and it is the astral DNA that makes them Elf, Dwarf, Orc, or Troll. So if your Astral DNA doesn't take your child will become a human (as pointed out above this is getting less and less statistically possible). This also means that if you have a clone of yourself it may be any metatype but usually comes out human. They also state that changelings have a similar effect and I would guess that Drakes are similar as well. There are a couple of companies doing study into Astral DNA (Evo being the big one) and there is a hope to map out the Astral DNA to isolate the metatype "gene" and the magic "gene".

[TBRMInsanity]

You can also extrapolate that elves and dwarfs will express in a lower intensity manafield than orks and trolls based upon the fact that Goblinisation didn't happen until 2021 - ten years after the initial "Awakening" and UGE.

I also agree with the point about metegenes developing in the unborn child and that when that child comes to term it is whatever those genes express. The only way around that would be for the child to be conceived in a manaless environment and then be introduced to one later and thus express via Goblinisation. If you take the precedent that dwarfs and elves don't goblinise, only orks and trolls (and perhaps changelings) could theoretically "express their true forms" as they enter the manafield environment.

I would argue that puberty based Goblinisation took effect at the Awakening but since it takes time for the initial children to get to puberty, that they didn't express their metatype till 10 years later. But I agree that there needs to be a more intense manafield to have orcs and trolls born as orcs and trolls. Just like you need a more intense manafield to spawn changelings, drakes, and God knows what else the 6th world will bring.