Restricted Ammunition, How much? Options

[FlashbackJon]

How do you handle characters who take the Restricted Gear Quality with the intent to purchase ammo?

Do they get 10 rounds (1 item), as much as they can purchase (1 "item"), or do you limit it? What's a reasonable limit?

[Backgammon]

Considering you could otherwise buy whatever hot piece of cyberware you want with the quality, which can run in the hundred of thousands, limiting the amount of ammo that can be purchased seems unfair.

[Dakka Dakka]

I'd advise them to get the Black Market Pipeline quality instead/on top of the Restricted gear quality. By RAW it is per 10 shots.

[Meatbag]

How do you handle characters who take the Restricted Gear Quality with the intent to purchase ammo?

I tell them it's a waste, then point them toward all the badass guns they can get to chuck their Ex-EX ammo.

Black Market Pipeline, as stated above, is a much better solution.

[Dakka Dakka]

SnS is also pretty badass against soft targets.

[Cardul]

I allow one clips worth, myself. Considering that you have to take Restricted Gear quality to start with a Laser, and then again to cover its power pack, it seems fair that way.

[Dakka Dakka]

For Lasers and rechargeable power packs this may make sense, but for APDS this sucks.

[Zaranthan]

Once again, BMP is a superior choice for a consumable like bullets. Restricted Gear is for gear, not supplies.

[crizh]

I've never seen the point, mechanically, of Black Market Pipeline.

All you get for 10BP is a slight discount and a DP bonus for buying/selling the item in question. Unless there is errata or developer clarification I've missed the quality is pointless.

The real killer with any item of gear is the lead time. If BMP explicitly said that the contact always had stock that was available for immediate delivery it would be worth 10BP. As it stands, not so much.

[Zaranthan]

More dice for the availability test means you find it sooner.

[crizh]

But no faster than a single period which can easily be a week or more.

I've noticed a lot of runs tend to start very suddenly.

[Kerenshara]

Considering you could otherwise buy whatever hot piece of cyberware you want with the quality, which can run in the hundred of thousands, limiting the amount of ammo that can be purchased seems unfair.

I would have to agree with this general idea. The character could have stumbled across a one-time supplier with CASES of ammunition as likely as a clip's worth. Then there's the variation in "clip size" in the first place.

I'd advise them to get the Black Market Pipeline quality instead/on top of the Restricted gear quality. By RAW it is per 10 shots.

Black Market Pipeline accomplishes one important thing that isn't strictly a "crunchy" bit. It tells the GM that you have a conduit that specializes in a particular comodity, and thus it would be "repeatable" over time without a lot of extra hassle. Of course a hard-nosed GM could ignore that at leisure, but it's an important consideration, and I think that's why it's so relatively pricey.

I've never seen the point, mechanically, of Black Market Pipeline.

All you get for 10BP is a slight discount and a DP bonus for buying/selling the item in question. Unless there is errata or developer clarification I've missed the quality is pointless.

The real killer with any item of gear is the lead time. If BMP explicitly said that the contact always had stock that was available for immediate delivery it would be worth 10BP. As it stands, not so much.

Like I said above, it's not a question of "in stock" so much as "yeah, null sweat, I can get that." It's the certainty that the items will turn up with a dramatically reduced chance of bringing down the heat on highly restricted items. Think of it as the difference between scoring drugs off the local pusher at the top of the local chain, or getting in with his supplier. Is that a better analogy? Remember, this could apply to pharmaceuticals, chemicals, Fake SiNs and Licenses, and anything else that is somehow restricted or taxed - even cigarettes. It doesn't have to be about weapons.

[Zaranthan]

That's why you keep it on-hand. If you need ammo in a hurry, regular bullets are cheap, plentiful, and kill things nearly as well. The right tool for the job...

[Zak]

To be honest, I am not a big fan of the availability rules as written. I take them as a guideline and keep a close eye on the contacts of my players. Gear won't break my games anyway.

The Restricted Gear Quality is a decent way to start out with a proper piece of bio- or cyberware.
Lasers? Ammunition? Screw that, buy all you can afford and live with the consequences of being one of the few users (in case of a Laser or Gaussrifle...)

[Backgammon]

Like I said above, it's not a question of "in stock" so much as "yeah, null sweat, I can get that." It's the certainty that the items will turn up with a dramatically reduced chance of bringing down the heat on highly restricted items. Think of it as the difference between scoring drugs off the local pusher at the top of the local chain, or getting in with his supplier. Is that a better analogy? Remember, this could apply to pharmaceuticals, chemicals, Fake SiNs and Licenses, and anything else that is somehow restricted or taxed - even cigarettes. It doesn't have to be about weapons.

I agree with this interpretation, but the problem is that it is an interpretation. As much as I like your take on it, I have to say the quality doesn't say that. The listed mechanics are awful for the high cost of it.

[rathmun]

I agree with this interpretation, but the problem is that it is an interpretation. As much as I like your take on it, I have to say the quality doesn't say that. The listed mechanics are awful for the high cost of it.

Well, that depends entirely on what type of item the BMP is for. For example, 10 BP when converted to cash for starting gear nets you 50,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , so the 10% discount (prior to negotiation) will pay for itself after 500,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth of purchases. Yes, it's going to be a while before that happens, but if your BMP is for cyberware (for example), you fully intend to hit that point eventually if you're playing a street sam. Even if you never have 500,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) in your body at once, the upgrade treadmill will hit that eventually. Hell, a deltaware rating 3 Move-by-Wire system is expensive enough on it's own to break even on a cyberware BMP on it's own.


That said, I'm not sure it's worth it for ammo. (unless the entire team is going through you to get their ammo.) Even then, 500,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) is err... 62,500 rounds of SnS, or 50,000 rounds of Ex-Ex. That seems a bit more than the average group of runners will use in several years. (unless someone is using a minigun or something.)

[Draco18s]

That said, I'm not sure it's worth it for ammo. (unless the entire team is going through you to get their ammo.) Even then, 500,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) is err... 62,500 rounds of SnS, or 50,000 rounds of Ex-Ex. That seems a bit more than the average group of runners will use in several years. (unless someone is using a minigun or something.)

5 PCs using ExEx with suppressive fire for 500 complex actions each.

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

5 PCs using ExEx with suppressive fire for 500 complex actions each.

Seems like a waste to me...

[Professeur]

Seems like a waste to me...

Gee, you think ?

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

Gee, you think ?

Purt Near Padnah

[Professeur]

... what ? Sorry pal, english ain't my first language, you'll have to dumb it down for me !

[Tymeaus Jalynsfe...]

... what ? Sorry pal, english ain't my first language, you'll have to dumb it down for me !

Not to worry... was using my southern drawl... guess it does not translate very well via the written word...

[Cardul]

Well, that depends entirely on what type of item the BMP is for. For example, 10 BP when converted to cash for starting gear nets you 50,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) , so the 10% discount (prior to negotiation) will pay for itself after 500,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) worth of purchases. Yes, it's going to be a while before that happens, but if your BMP is for cyberware (for example), you fully intend to hit that point eventually if you're playing a street sam. Even if you never have 500,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) in your body at once, the upgrade treadmill will hit that eventually. Hell, a deltaware rating 3 Move-by-Wire system is expensive enough on it's own to break even on a cyberware BMP on it's own.


That said, I'm not sure it's worth it for ammo. (unless the entire team is going through you to get their ammo.) Even then, 500,000 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) is err... 62,500 rounds of SnS, or 50,000 rounds of Ex-Ex. That seems a bit more than the average group of runners will use in several years. (unless someone is using a minigun or something.)

Well, it depends on the ammo, too....Ammo includes things like missiles and rockets, after all. While it may not payfor itself monetarily..being able to get those quicker can be a Good Thing™.

Then again, personally, I have found one of the most broken things with SR is: Fill out your money BP, pay for High Life style, some really good contacts, and then...send the rest of the money from this into your dice roll..remember, ever 100 Nuyen is a +1 to the roll...250K-40K in basic gear -10K for High Lifestyle is 200K, which is a + 2K to your roll, at, what, 500 Nuyen per point of result? Yes, said character will not have lots of cyberware or bioware, or much in the way of super gear, but, said character will have the ability to buy almost anything he wants right out of Chargen...

[rathmun]

Well, it depends on the ammo, too....Ammo includes things like missiles and rockets, after all. While it may not payfor itself monetarily..being able to get those quicker can be a Good Thing™.

Then again, personally, I have found one of the most broken things with SR is: Fill out your money BP, pay for High Life style, some really good contacts, and then...send the rest of the money from this into your dice roll..remember, ever 100 Nuyen is a +1 to the roll To a Maximum bonus equal to three times the number of dice rolled. ...250K-40K in basic gear -10K for High Lifestyle is 200K, which is a + 2K to your roll, at, what, 500 Nuyen per point of result? Yes, said character will not have lots of cyberware or bioware, or much in the way of super gear, but, said character will have the ability to buy almost anything he wants right out of Chargen...

Emphasis mine (from the book). So, that means no more than a +12 on the roll.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Seems like a waste to me...

I have to disagree.