Paydata, How do you guys handle it? Options

[evilgoattea]

The hacker in my group recentily hit the KSAF radio station system and scored some paydata. How exacttly is paydata traded and sold? I mean couldn't a hacker make 10 copies of a paydata and try to spread it around? The only negative thing I could see from this happening is bad rep.

Any thoughts?

[The Jake]

Rep is definitely factor. Runners live and die by it. Without it, everyone will consider them dishonorless street scum that can be sacrificed like the fodder they are, rather than trusted, skilled professionals who can be relied on when necessary.

Secondly, exclusivity. Data is valued often by its secrecy and the fact that few people have access to it. The more commonly known hidden paydirt is, the less likely someone is to pay money for it. Often the more sensitive the data is, the less people you want to share it with, let alone discuss it. Think about it - if I can read your paydata on a a dozen free websites, why would I pay money for it?

Thirdly, there is the issue of buyers. Some data, by its very nature, limits the number of potential buyers. If, for example, KSAF had information on a royal scandal (some noble somewhere caught with hookers and a boatload of drugs), news stations and magazines may offer a truckload for an exclusive. But how much would the royal who had been exposed be willing to pay? Also its unlikely everyone would be interested in that dirt, so not everyone would willingly mortgage their house to get cash to pay for the data.

- J.

[Heath Robinson]

You should totally expect the shadow economy to have a big distributed database where you can submit fuzzy hashes of some parts of the information to get a list of pseudonyms of people who have checked out this bit of paydirt. You then submit a full set of fuzzy hashes from all over the information to prove you also have a copy of the data, and possibly add tags to the entries to let people know who they have to see to buy the info from.

This serves the dual purpose of providing a service that lets you find information brokers that have what you want, and also check who else has the info your 'runners claim is fresh dirt.

[TBRMInsanity]

I always treated PayData like money that has an expiration date. The set "amount" is the maximum amount of (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) you can get for the data buy the sale of copies, or brokering through a fixer or datamonger. I always treat the data like this, each game day is a 10% deduction in the "amount", so after 10 days you effectively have nothing (this represents the time it takes an average corp to "cover their butt" and mitigate any damage from the leaked info (This also includes tracking you down and killing you)).

[limejello10512]

actually I'dbe more interested in finding a base cost. anyone got any examples of pay by type of data?

[TBRMInsanity]

actually I'dbe more interested in finding a base cost. anyone got any examples of pay by type of data?

It varies based on the data. Usually as a GM I would write down what the max value of the data is worth and then just tell the PC how big the file is. From there they know that the sooner they get rid of the data the better. Usually they dump the data when they do their post run wrap up with their Mr. J.

[The Jake]

Didn't there used to be tables governing this stuff?

There were some useful quick-n-dirty rules for this in earlier editions IIRC....

- J.

[Chibu]

Yep, that would be Rigger 3, page 50 (a a sentence on 49 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) )

CODE

Security   Points  Data Size
Blue     1d6-1  2d6 x 20Mp
Green    2d6-2  2d6 x 15Mp
Orange   2d6    2d6 x 10Mp
Red      2d6+2  2d6 x 5Mp

Value of data is 5000 Nuyen/point.

[limejello10512]

oh perfect!!!! you're a god!!!!! Chibu...A god......and this isn't the first time......actually I think I'm gonna post the base skill cost for all the shadowrun jobs I found in the runners companion 3 (thought it'd be in RC 4....it wasn't) btw what do those color codes mean? I forgot....maybe I'll have to skim through some old books.

[paws2sky]

The color codes refer to the security level of the system you snatch the paydata from.

-paws

[Zen Shooter01]

The Rigger 3 table Chibu posted is a disaster. A D6 rolls 4 on the average. So a hacker can rip off blue systems (blue was the lowest security rating in earlier editions) once a day, roll a 4, subtract 1, multiply by 5,000, and be making 75,000 nuyen a week (assuming weekends off), with very little risk. And each heist takes only about ten minutes in game time. The hacker will retire in six months. Why is he going on shadowruns now?

You have to be very careful with paydata, because it can easily destroy game balance.

[Chibu]

Well yeah. I know it's alot. That's why our deckers usually have good stories to back up why they are running. Though really, there isn't as much data out there that people will pay for. So you could easily give diminishing returns... say: the value calculated as above divided by the number of times the decker has done it this month... or something. This would reflect something to the effect of not all data is worth something to everyone. Or that when you're throwing data around like that people start to realize it and aren't willing to pay as much.

Also, if a decker were to do this, they would probably gain a rep for it, and would start to be wanted by others. So feel free to give them free enemies.

And again, you could also require a skill to fence the data. A decker won't automatically know who wants it, and who will be willing to pay for it.

But yeah, I definately agree, that's really alot of money and therefore most deckers, by that table, would not need to run for money.

[limejello10512]

well you also have to get to the data which is often defended IRL

also I know that paws lol I meant what kind of security are we talking about...what does those security levels mean specificly.

[Dragnar]

But yeah, I definately agree, that's really alot of money and therefore most deckers, by that table, would not need to run for money.

This is the age-old adage mentioned quite often on dumpshock that if you'd actually take any of the suggested monetary compensations in any of the books, hackers would be stealing from John Doe's private bank accounts and everyone else would be boosting cars instead of taking risky shadowruns.
The cash reward in a game should be exactly what the GM and the players think is a good amount to hand out. Taking the advice of anyone else isn't going to lead to satisfying results.
It's even worse than suggested karma rewards (and you should be really cautious with those as well).

[Writer]

To respond to the original post, data doesn't have value unless it has a buyer. The easiest way to have a buyer is to steal what the buyer wants. However, if you pick up some files without a buyer already in waiting, you will have to reveal some of details of the data. Otherwise, the right buyer won't know you have what they want. On the down side, this could attract the wrong kind of attention. Once you sell the data, if you try to sell an other copy, the buyer, who is already an interested party, might hear about it and decide to set you up with an ambush. Buyers usually don't want to share data. And time moves on. If it takes you three days to find a buyer, and another three days to find a second buyer, how much is your data worth after six days?

[limejello10512]

ALso some other stuff not being taken into account...I alredy said getting to the blue node...you need the other runners for that....what about finding out about the nodes existance.....also hacker services are clearly listed so if the paydata is a "run" then the johnson is only going to give him the money for hacking the system as per the service table. (plus all the cool gear the runners need costs way more than the typical run of a few k a piece so this could actually be helpful.

also I know THAT paws lol. I meant what do the different security codes mean....I mean those are just colors it doesn't tell me anyhting about what a blue green orange or red node should be.

[paws2sky]

also I know THAT paws lol. I meant what do the different security codes mean....I mean those are just colors it doesn't tell me anyhting about what a blue green orange or red node should be.

I guess I don't understand your question, then.

Are you asking for examples of nodes coded blue, green, etc.?

-paws