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> HMHVV III - Disease Resistance Tests, Is transformation after singular infection inevitable or not?
Uli
post May 26 2009, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE
Runner's Companion p. 83
Every time a character fails the Disease Resistance Test, he loses 0.1 points of Essence.


Does that mean scoring no success on the test or does it mean not reducing the Power to zero? It would make the difference between absolute inevitability of the transformation and the possibility of shaking it off.

Oh, and I suppose Zeta-Interferon doesn't help, does it?
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Ancient History
post May 26 2009, 11:56 PM
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It's a pretty nasty, so I'm gonna go with "Does not reduce Power to 0."

And no, Zeta-Interferon doesn't work. But Pathogenic Defense, the Rat Mentor Spirit, and Cure Disease spells can help.
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Zormal
post May 27 2009, 07:36 AM
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Ouch... So there's pretty much no way to prevent essence loss, if you come to contact with ghouls... and very little chance of escaping the transformation?

You first roll against a power of 8, which means you need an absolute minimum of 24 dice on your body-test to be successful. After that you need more, as the remaining power is added to the power of the next test. The minimum amount of tests is 10, and every time you fail you lose 0.1 points of essence. This means that you'd lose the full 1 essence point needed for turning into a ghoul while the power of the virus is still accumulating.

Let's see... With a body of 10, you'd still need 14 hits from a Cure Disease -spell for making it possible. Edge helps, but only so much for 10 consecutive rolls. A big step up from SR3 Companion, where just 2 hits allowed you to escape the infection.

Is there something I'm missing?

...suddenly that chemically sealed full-body-armor is looking like a nice investment (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)
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Jaid
post May 27 2009, 08:00 AM
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QUOTE (Zormal @ May 27 2009, 03:36 AM) *
Is there something I'm missing?

yes. a given 6-sided die has a 1/3 chance of coming up as 5 or more, it is true. however, it does not follow that you *need* 24 dice to obtain a result of 8 of said dice showing values of 5 or more. it is entirely possible (if reasonably improbable) to generate 8 hits with only 8 dice (approximately 1 in 6,561 if my math is correct) but it is still possible. throw edge in there for exploding hits and your chances improve. (however, i for one don't care to even try to figure out what your exact odds would be).

in any event, it certainly isn't impossible. in fact, with a pool of only 16 dice, while 5 hits may be a fairly standard result, 8 hits is probably not horribly uncommon. oh, sure, you've got less than a 50% chance most likely... but your chance is quite likely to be 30% or even more, i would suspect.

now mind you, 16 dice is also not a terribly common dicepool for resisting diseases.

all this being said though, there has been a vaccination in earlier editions that defends against turning into a ghoul. given how long it used to take to become one, it was extremely improbable that you wouldn't be able to get access to it in time, thus protecting yourself from turning into a ghoul even if you did get infected.
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Zormal
post May 27 2009, 08:24 AM
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ah yes... how stupid of me. This fever is really getting to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

Thanks.
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Uli
post May 27 2009, 08:39 AM
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Thanks for your thoughts and numbers.

QUOTE (Jaid @ May 27 2009, 10:00 AM) *
all this being said though, there has been a vaccination in earlier editions that defends against turning into a ghoul. given how long it used to take to become one, it was extremely improbable that you wouldn't be able to get access to it in time, thus protecting yourself from turning into a ghoul even if you did get infected.


I would really love a reference for this thing.

Why I'm asking: I have a plot in mind in which the runners infect several important people with HMHVV III for Tamanous (no, they won't know the nature of their Johnson). But they transmit something helpful along with it (maybe an anchored Cure Disease spell). In result, all these people should become carriers, but not transform. Now Tamanous has a stock of influential new contacts it can blackmail or threat with a second infection.
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Starmage21
post May 27 2009, 03:39 PM
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QUOTE (Uli @ May 27 2009, 03:39 AM) *
Thanks for your thoughts and numbers.



I would really love a reference for this thing.

Why I'm asking: I have a plot in mind in which the runners infect several important people with HMHVV III for Tamanous (no, they won't know the nature of their Johnson). But they transmit something helpful along with it (maybe an anchored Cure Disease spell). In result, all these people should become carriers, but not transform. Now Tamanous has a stock of influential new contacts it can blackmail or threat with a second infection.


Oh thats freaking evil. DO WANT (im stealing this one))
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Dakka Dakka
post Jul 21 2009, 12:04 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ May 27 2009, 01:56 AM) *
And no, Zeta-Interferon doesn't work.
Is there any reason why this anti-viral agent should not work against HMHVV?
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toturi
post Jul 21 2009, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 21 2009, 08:04 PM) *
Is there any reason why this anti-viral agent should not work against HMHVV?


QUOTE (RC p82)
No inoculations or antiviral agent has been developed which provides any bonus or protection...
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toturi
post Jul 21 2009, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ May 27 2009, 07:56 AM) *
It's a pretty nasty, so I'm gonna go with "Does not reduce Power to 0."

And no, Zeta-Interferon doesn't work. But Pathogenic Defense, the Rat Mentor Spirit, and Cure Disease spells can help.

How about O-Cells? Those are neither inoculation nor "anti-viral agent".

And exactly what are affected by Penetration, in particular are O-Cells affected by Penetration?

Further how is Penetration applied? If the patient benefits from multiple protective systems, are all of such systems reduced by Penetration? Or is Penetration applied to the sum of these systems?

If Penetration is applied in a fashion "similar to Armor Penetration for weapons", then it would apply once to the sum of all protective dice adders and not at all to O Cells. On another note, Pathogenic Defense does absolutely jack against the disease - it is a dice adder of max rating 6 which Penetration -6 will reduce to 0.
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Ancient History
post Jul 21 2009, 02:45 PM
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QUOTE
If Penetration is applied in a fashion "similar to Armor Penetration for weapons", then it would apply once to the sum of all protective dice adders.

This is my interpretation, yes.
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TBRMInsanity
post Jul 21 2009, 03:29 PM
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I like the SR1 cure for HMHVV (a bullet to the side of the head). That being said I also recall somewhere a vaccine against certain strains of HMHVV (I think the most common ones only). As a GM though you can always have a MegaCorp create a top secret vaccine for any strain of HMHVV. The corp may not have finished field testing and it is your SRs job to do that testing.

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crizh
post Jul 21 2009, 08:20 PM
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QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jul 21 2009, 03:45 PM) *
This is my interpretation, yes.


This makes me very happy.

It was my understanding of the situation too but I wasn't very sure. The penetration of a disease of toxin reduces the number of extra dice granted by protective measures.

In which case O-cells rock and you are an idiot not to get them at the first opportunity.
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KCKitsune
post Jul 22 2009, 04:35 AM
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QUOTE (crizh @ Jul 21 2009, 03:20 PM) *
This makes me very happy.

It was my understanding of the situation too but I wasn't very sure. The penetration of a disease of toxin reduces the number of extra dice granted by protective measures.

In which case O-cells rock and you are an idiot not to get them at the first opportunity.


Get a Nano-hive and O-Cells at rating 9 and you're protected from almost all diseases for damn near forever.

Get the hive in a cyberlimb and it doesn't even cost Essence.
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Cardul
post Jul 22 2009, 08:21 AM
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QUOTE (crizh @ Jul 21 2009, 03:20 PM) *
In which case O-cells rock and you are an idiot not to get them at the first opportunity.


I used to not see a point to them...then this whole discussion came up, where it turns out that O-cells are the
only thing that can reduce the power of HMHVV....

Nano-hives and O-cells for EVERYONE!
I will, in fact, be saying that they are a very important piece of gear, and I will begin the punishing by Ghoul
of anyone who does not go for them ASAP...(Remember: as a GM, it is my job to punish stupidity)
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Dakka Dakka
post Jul 22 2009, 08:33 AM
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Does anyone know how long the O-Cells and other Nanites last outside of a body? A mage might shy away from installing a Nanite Hive.
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KCKitsune
post Jul 22 2009, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 22 2009, 03:33 AM) *
Does anyone know how long the O-Cells and other Nanites last outside of a body? A mage might shy away from installing a Nanite Hive.


Nanites lose one rank of power every week. So it would take 9 weeks for Rating 9 O-cells to be flushed from the body.

As for a nanite hive... get it in a cyberlimb and it only takes 2 capacity. A standard grade cyberhand/foot only costs .25 Essence and has 4 capacity.
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Dakka Dakka
post Jul 22 2009, 08:40 AM
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QUOTE (KCKitsune @ Jul 22 2009, 10:36 AM) *
Nanites lose one rank of power every week. So it would take 9 weeks for Rating 9 O-cells to be flushed from the body.
I know, I wanted to know how long they last stored in a jar, syringe or whatever. Just carrying them around and administering them when needed should work as well.
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Marduc
post Jul 22 2009, 08:45 AM
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Can I instal a hive in a cyber eye?
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Muspellsheimr
post Jul 22 2009, 09:06 AM
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No. A cybereye (or ear) is not a cyberlimb, & nanohives can be installed in cyberlimbs, using Capacity in place of Essence.
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KCKitsune
post Jul 22 2009, 11:12 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 22 2009, 04:40 AM) *
I know, I wanted to know how long they last stored in a jar, syringe or whatever. Just carrying them around and administering them when needed should work as well.


I just checked Augmentation and I saw nothing that says they degrade if they're kept in a vial and carried with on the person. So yes, you can carry it and use it when you need to.
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crizh
post Jul 22 2009, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 22 2009, 09:33 AM) *
Does anyone know how long the O-Cells and other Nanites last outside of a body? A mage might shy away from installing a Nanite Hive.


Have a friend, Street Sam, Hacker, whatever, that already has a Hive get Nano-infectors(O-Cells 9) 6.

Have said friend 're-infect' you once a week.

Job done.
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Stahlseele
post Jul 22 2009, 11:37 AM
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Make sure you share the same blood type.
Transfusions after fighting would be usefull.
Also, i like the syringe idea with nano-stuff.
Reminds me of Bioshock or something O.o
Also:
Nano-Ammo. Fill Injection Darts/Bullets up!
Stupid expansive, true. But also cool =^.^=
Or become a raging psychotic, load up with:
*drumroll* you guessed it, HMHVV III Krieger.
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hobgoblin
post Jul 22 2009, 11:51 AM
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QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jul 22 2009, 10:40 AM) *
I know, I wanted to know how long they last stored in a jar, syringe or whatever. Just carrying them around and administering them when needed should work as well.

the degradation is more about loss from bodily processes, then by some kind of over time degradation.

i would think that disabled nanites stored correctly can hold for a nice long time, especially if they are hard nanites (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)
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crizh
post Jul 22 2009, 11:59 AM
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O-Cells are soft unfortunately but ought to keep outside the body if stored correctly.

Even without a Hive a single dose of Rating 9 O-Cells is sufficient to survive HMHVV-III completely unscathed.
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