SR4: Damage and Gases Options

[Maxwell]

Does the exceeding stun damage from stun gases carry over to the physical condition monitor?

Example: A shadowrunner is trapped in a room filled with cs gas, what happens when his stun damage monitor is full? Does the damage carry over to the physical monitor and the runner is dying slowly? Or does no further damage apply after the runner is unconscious?

[Chrysalis]

Well CS gas is heavier than air. So it actually would probably kill you in an enclosed space. That if yu don't go unconscious first and asphyxiate on your own vomit.

But. I am using real life logic on the problem and that I have been repeatedly told on and off this forum that its verbotten with RPGs.

I leave the rules tinkerers to give you a Rules-as-Written response and two pages of divergence on the latest nerdrage news item.

[Jhaiisiin]

Unless specifically noted, all stun overflows to physical. So yes, it'd keep going until you died.

That said, unless you were in a sealed chamber, it'd be reasonable to rule that the gas becomes ineffective after X time, and thus you stop taking damage.

[Jet]

Check up on your gasses, too. Some neutralize after a certain time, so they would be more preferred for corp security work than others which could linger and possibly kill suspects and or employees. Of course a certain percentage of fatalities might be considered acceptable by the corps, and all bets are off in non-public zero zones. A few incapacitate through secondary effects so it is possible to put someone down without filling up their condition monitor. I got nailed that way with the breathtaker gas recently. It led to a bout of involuntary employment. <sigh>

[Larme]

Cursory google fu reveals that CS is ordinarily not lethal. However, one guy did die when police sprayed him and held him down, though it's suspected that it was suffocation from being held down, and not the gas, that killed him.

Of course, according to RAW, all stun damage can kill you. That makes sense for narcoject -- is an anesthetic, and all anesthetics can kill you in an overdose. But getting a quadruple dose of tear gas shouldn't do it... let alone pepper punch! Pepper punch could kill you even faster because it does more stun damage, and that's just not right... I've never heard of someone dying from eating chili peppers, unless maybe they were allergic.

The best explanation I could think of for those being lethal would be that somehow, you can't breathe while being doused by them, and you suffocate. It's not that plausible, but the other option is to shrug your shoulders and say 'meh.' (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Either that, or house rule that some stun damage can't overflow, like damage from non-lethal gasses.

[Dumori]

Atctaly the chemical the makes chilled spicey can be leathal in large doses. Iirc the is actaly a chillie that exceeds this amount if you eat a whole one. I belive it puts the body in to some form of shock.

[Meatbag]

Actually the chemical the makes chilies spicy can be lethal in large doses. IIRC the is actually a chili that exceeds this amount if you eat a whole one. I believe it puts the body in to some form of shock.

Yeah, Capsaicin can be fatal in frankly absurd concentrations. I can't imagine any security agency gassing people with that much, even in the Sixth World.

Such concentrations don't exist in nature - at least not in this world. Awakened habaneros might do it, though. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Allanlaigh]

I have never heared of people becoming unconscious of cs-gas or pepper punch in the real world.

Is it realy so, that the stun damage of the gases should be applied every speed intervall? I have only found this in the rules:

CONCENTRATION
[...]
Likewise, if a character remains in contact with a toxin over an
extended period, such as being caught in a gas-filled room for several
minutes, she may receive an additional dose and suffer stronger effects
(or have to resist the toxin again). When the toxin’s Speed period has
elapsed again, apply additional concentration effects as appropriate or
call for another resistance test.

Would that be every 2 combat turns for cs-gas, to resist the 5 stun damage?

[Larme]

Now that I look, the concentration rules tell us that it's at the GM's discretion. A GM could very well rule that more than one dose of pepper punch or CS gas has no effect, since they are non-lethal agents incapable of rendering people unconscious under normal circumstances. Or maybe the effects other than damage can be renewed, but you can't knock out or kill someone with them. I think the RAW leaves that within a GM's discretion, you don't have to make those gases lethal per RAW.

On the other hand, it would make sense for others. Repeated doses of narcoject or neurostun could kill people more realistically, since they are basically nerve agents or anesthetics, which are easily lethal in high doses.