Questions about demolitions..., Setting down us the bomb! Options

[Phaeton]

I'm working on making a Lone Star plainclothes cop who also has demolitions/bomb squad training, and can rig drones to defuse them.

Now, the question is...If you were defusing a bomb, would you use Demolitions Background, or Demolitions Active? Me and my friend had somewhat of an argument over this. I argue that Demo Background covers the workings of an explosive device and therefore which wire to cut to avoid nuking yourself. My friend argues that Demo Active covers the process of setting, measuring, and everything else associated with setting a bomb.

Any comments? :cyber:

[Austere Emancipa...]

It's "Set Us Up The Bomb", by the way.

I consider it Active for a few reasons: First, it can be argued that anything with a significant use in shadowrunning is an Active skill. Second, if fusing a bomb is Active, then so is defusing it.

If you think that fusing a bomb (setting up the wires, arming it) is Active, then it's pretty much settled. If you don't think that fusing it falls under the Active Demolitions, then what do you think the Active skill does?

[RedmondLarry]

There is also Demolitions B/R to consider.

I rule that Demolitions is the skill to use for disarming a bomb, but I don't have any strong argument that this is right.

From a game-mechanics sense, I wouldn't use a Knowledge Skill for defusing a bomb. There seems to be enough hands-on use of meters, screwdrivers, wire cutters, etc. that it has to be an Active Skill.

/Edit: Dang, I'm so slow. But I think he's got a 10-hour head start on me due to his timezone, so I didn't do too bad.

[Fresno Bob]

There is no Demolitions B/R apparantly. You make bombs with Chemistry B/R. I figure it would just fall under Demolitions.

[Austere Emancipa...]

Yep, no Demolitions (B/R). Making explosives is Chemistry (no B/R there either, it's just a Knowledge skill), but making a bomb is Demolitions.

[Siege]

Background skills are even more obscure than knowledge skills.

To be a demo specialist, I'd say you need two primary skills:

Demolitions
Electronics B/R

Demolitions would be the primary skill, however you should get Elec B/R as a comp bonus, provided the detonation system is electronic (which, in 2060, it will most likely be).

And there isn't a Chemistry B/R --> it's just Chemistry (which is a knowledge skill :grinbig: )

If you're rigging a drone to deactivate a bomb, I'd also throw in Electronics to use the sensors, gadgets and gizmos attached to the drone.

-Siege

Edit: Damn, Aus beat me to it. :grinbig:

[D.Generate]

I would say to actually defuse a bomb you'd need an electronics b/r. Since most bombs ie plastique are set off by an electronic ingnition usually controlled by some tiype of Digital timer. But I would also say any Knowledge background in Demolitions or explosives would lower the target number some as Bomb techs are taught many different ways of defusing many different types of explosive devices. They study histories on different types of devices used and so forth. Basically they are like the psycholigists of things that blow up.

[Siege]

The SR skill system is a little funky, but certain skills would seem to encompass areas covered by other skills.

Biotech, for example, covers using medical computer systems that would ostensibly be covered by either Computers or Electronics.

Demolitions (IMHO) covers making bombs -- not explosives and the application of bombs or explosives for maximum desired effect. (Thanks to Aus for making that distinction)

Demolitions also covers the dismantling of the bomb you (or someone else) just assembled.

Personally, I say only one skill may used as a secondary (complimentary) bonus, so the character could use Electronics B/R or even KS: Booby-traps, depending on which one is higher or which one the GM feels is more appropriate.

As I pointed out, Electronics B/R wouldn't be particularly appropriate for a mechanical or chemical trigger devoid of electronic components.

-Siege

[LoseAsDirected]

In cases like this (such as the B/R issues), I usually allow a PC to use a background skill as a complimentary skill..

Just roll the knowledge skill against a TN of 4. Every 2 successes allow an additional die on the real roll.

[Austere Emancipa...]

I don't think electronic detonation of explosives would be much more common than it is currently. The technology involved is about 100% foolproof today. Radio detonation might be slightly more common, but some of the risks included (jamming mostly) would still be there, limiting its usefulness.

I think it's pretty clear that if Demolitions is the skill you use to put the wires into place, then Demolitions is also the skill you use to get the wires out of place. I would allow complementary skills, like the ones mentioned (Electronics B/R, many Knowledge skills), and might even allow Defaulting to Electronics B/R if it is an electronically detonated bomb. But I hold on to the idea that disarming a bomb is basically Demolitions as long as arming the same bomb is Demolitions, and all other skills are secondary.

[Phaeton]

Hmmm....All of that works validly, I think. Thanks guys! :D

[thunderchild]

Although there is no "Demolitions B/R" by cannon, i allow it and define it as "The skill of being able to manufacture explosives and other parts of an explosive device from non-standard components."

I know that they are covered by other skills but it simplified things at the time for a "mad bomber" npc, and it didnt seem to cause any problems so i allowed others to use it.

[The Grifter]

"There is no problem that can not be solved by the application of high explosives"- Murphy's Law

[The Cheshire Pen...]

I have the Demolition B/R skill in my campaign, and specializations, such as Land Mines B/R and Nuclear Weapons B/R. These skills aren't used to defuse bombs or manufacture the actual explosives (which would fall under chemistry as someone else pointed out), but are used to put together or take apart the components of a given explosive device. It's different than Booby Traps B/R, although the two could certainly be used together for a more devastating effect. Having a Demolitions B/R skill has made it easier to figure out what skill is used to jurry-rig a grenade to be used as a land-mine, or how to use the explosive components of a Sea-Saber missile and encorporate it into a refrigerator. :)

[Fortune]

So what do you use the actual Demolition skill itself for?

[Siege]

For detonating the nuclear weapons?

Just a guess.

-Siege

[RedmondLarry]

[Austere Emancipa...]

Building a bomb requires you to know where you want to place the explosive, how much to use, timing, etc. Building a bomb is basically getting all that stuff done beforehand, so that when you actually get on-site, you just need to slap that bomb in the right place and arm it. Building a bomb is just realizing that knowledge you are discussing. Disarming/defusing a bomb is just doing that in reverse order.

There are good arguments for using skills other than Demolitions for making bombs harder to defuse, and of course defusing such bombs. For the most part these techniques are common enough to be part of general explosive training, or at least are based on general training, so Demolitions still covers most of it, but e.g. Electronics B/R could be used to increase the difficulty of disarming such a device.

BTW, time zones do not allow me to jump back and forth in time. My clock might be running 10 hours in front of yours, but the "absolute time" remains the same. So if I reply faster than you, it's just because I'm faster than you. :P

[Namergon]

[Dash Panther]

In the chemistry chapter of Man and Machine, any explosives must be made using the Demolitions active skill with a chemistry kit/shop/facility. The Chemistry knowledge skill can be used as a complementary skill.

In State of the Art, Civil Engineering is a Knowledge skill that can be used as a complementary skill to Demolitions for finding strong/weak points and minimizing collateral damage.

[Siege]

Oh, for role-playing atmosphere:

make all bomb-disposal roles with your eyes closed so only the GM and the group can see the dice.

If anyone is nearby, do it behind a blind, with your eyes closed so only your GM can see it.

Gotta love that pucker factor! :grinbig:

-Siege