technomancer limitations?, Limited rating by system lvl? Options

[ICPiK]

Just questioning the rules! for programs are that they can't be higher than the system rating, and it states that CF's are to be treated as programs. Is that the case for CF'S as well, seems that would take away a major bonus for a techno in regards to the BP cost.

Thanks all

[DireRadiant]

"Complex Forms have ratings just as programs do, chosen
during character creation or bought/improved with Karma
during gameplay. A complex form’s rating may not exceed the
technomancer’s Resonance.
A technomancer’s complex forms can be used without limitation;
running too many at once does not aff ect Response."

[ICPiK]

TY. But that wasn't the question it states that a techno's cfs can not exceed twice their resonance. Which in most cases would be 12. The question is can they run say a stealth 10 on a node who's system is only a six. With programs you can only use programs that aren't higher than the system their on. But since systems over 6 are legendary it seems odd to limit a techno in such ways.

[crizh]

A program is limited by the System of the node it is loaded on.

Not the node you are using it in. Traditionally this means that it is limited by the System of your comm-link.

TM's are explicitly not limited by the System of their biological-node for the Ratings of the CF's they use but by their Resonance or Resonance x 2.

[BlueMax]

Crizh beat me to it.

Don't forget Sprites for they too ignore the limits.

BlueMax

[DireRadiant]

Just questioning the rules! for programs are that they can't be higher than the system rating, and it states that CF's are to be treated as programs. Is that the case for CF'S as well, seems that would take away a major bonus for a techno in regards to the BP cost.

Thanks all

"For simplicity, Complex
Forms are identifi ed by the programs
their functions mimic.
For each program available (see
p. 225), there is an equivalent Complex Form. Note that some
programs have diff erent eff ects when used as a Complex Form,
as noted in their individual descriptions. Also, agents or any
programs with a Pilot attribute may not be used as a Complex
Form (that’s what sprites are for, see below). Note that nontechnomancers
cannot use complex forms."

It's implied in all that, that even though they may reproduce and behave like Programs, they aren't. They are just described in those terms. The mechanics are different. Not the same as Programs.

[ICPiK]

So a technomancer is limited but not by the system of the node they're in but by their own system. or can a CF bve used at higher than 6 while being used or launched by a system of 6.

[Tiger Eyes]

Complex Forms are inherent to the Technomancer, and using them against a mundane node has no limitation on the complex form. The only limitations on Complex Forms:

At Character Generation:

The maximum number of complex forms your character can learn during character creation, regardless of rating, is equal to your character’s Logic x 2.

During Game Play:

A complex form’s base rating may not exceed the technomancer’s Resonance.

Threading:

No threaded complex form can have a rating greater than twice the technomancer’s Resonance.

A technomancer's System does not limit complex forms. His/her Resonance is the limiting factor.

[crizh]

So a technomancer is limited but not by the system of the node they're in but by their own system.

No.

The level a CF is known at is limited by Resonance.

You may Thread it up to twice Resonance.

You can also increase it further with the Assist Operations Sprite service with no limit.

A CF is never limited by System of any sort. Ever.

edit

dev-ninja'd.

damn

[Tiger Eyes]

Complex Forms are inherent to the Technomancer, and using them against a mundane node has no limitation on the complex form. The only limitations on Complex Forms:

At Character Generation:

The maximum number of complex forms your character can learn during character creation, regardless of rating, is equal to your character’s Logic x 2.

During Game Play:

A complex form’s base rating may not exceed the technomancer’s Resonance.

Threading:

No threaded complex form can have a rating greater than twice the technomancer’s Resonance.

A technomancer's System does not limit complex forms. His/her Resonance is the limiting factor. In game terms, a Technomancer with Resonance 8 is limited to a Stealth Complex Form with a base rating of 8. She can thread that Complex Form to 16. If she hacks Bob's Big Autos for a free car (Node rating 3), her threaded Stealth CF of 16 applies.

[crizh]

Hey, that's not fair.

You dp'd.

I claim half my ninja'ing back.

[Tiger Eyes]

Hey, that's not fair.

You dp'd.

I claim half my ninja'ing back.

I tried to edit the post with the example, but the text got turned into something other than English, I stupidly hit the back button, and voila! double post. Anyone who's worked with me knows my Incompetence: Computers can have some amusing side effects.

[crizh]

lol.

And they let you play the TM?

[Tiger Eyes]

lol.

And they let you play the TM?

Yes, because I do things like say "I ask the computer to pretty-please with sugar open all the doors to the hellhound kennels when the mean security guards walk by. Oh, and I tell it I totally like it's new reality filter. The colors look great on it."

[ICPiK]

Ty guys for the clarification. We were playing a game with a technomancer in it i was playing a rigger and i thought it was as u guys explained it but the others were not. so they limited my buddies threading to the system rating and i didnt wanna fight it to hard wihout asking the pros. thanks again.

[Jhaiisiin]

Yes, because I do things like say "I ask the computer to pretty-please with sugar open all the doors to the hellhound kennels when the mean security guards walk by. Oh, and I tell it I totally like it's new reality filter. The colors look great on it."

A valley girl technomancer just frightens me for some reason....

[DireRadiant]

A valley girl technomancer just frightens me for some reason....

Oh gag me with a spoon!

Oh wait, There is no spoon!

[CaptainSegfault]

A technomancer's System does not limit complex forms. His/her Resonance is the limiting factor. In game terms, a Technomancer with Resonance 8 is limited to a Stealth Complex Form with a base rating of 8. She can thread that Complex Form to 16. If she hacks Bob's Big Autos for a free car (Node rating 3), her threaded Stealth CF of 16 applies.

Can optimization increase this limit?

[BlueMax]

Can optimization increase this limit?

Great question! Program/CF options for the loophole!

BlueMax

[Tiger Eyes]

Can optimization increase this limit?

No. To quote Unwired:

A program with the Optimization
option is more effective at running on a system with limited
resources. Add the Optimization rating to the rating
of the System (to a maximum of twice the System’s rating)
to determine the maximum rating at which the program
can operate.

Complex forms, as we have established, are not limited by System, but rather by Resonance. Optimization as written has nothing to do with Resonance. A technomancer can already thread a CF to twice their Resonance.