Guns...which ones? and why? Options

[Relecs]

So I am in the process of creating a character (well actually two twins...) but anyways the point is I was looking through the guns and frankly I am starting to wonder why...why would anyone use a shotgun? aside from the flavour the weapons pales in comparison to the sniper rifle, sure it has the ability to fire a spread but once you get going with spread you can say goodbye to your damage and frankly one dead guard and two fine guards is better than three bruised guards.

Anyways what I'm hoping for is some tips on making highly effective gun wielders. The character will be using ware, and will have a high edge. (The characters are loosely based on the boondock saints for anyone who has seen it.) Right now my plan was to use longarms but if someone can convince me of a better weapon group that would be fine.

Essentially, what are the strong points of guns? what are the best tactics when using them? what is the best weapon/weapon group (in your opinion)? and why?

[Mäx]

but anyways the point is I was looking through the guns and frankly I am starting to wonder why...why would anyone use a shotgun? aside from the flavour the weapons pales in comparison to the sniper rifle

Becouse sniper rifles are really impractical to use in close quater combat( rules don't say anythink about this, but i think most GM:s will)
And shotguns are much cheaper then sniper rifles and if you get yourself one that is capable of burstfire the shotgun does pretty much same damage as sniper rifle or more.

[Relecs]

The damage may be the dame but if the enemy is wearing more than a t-shirt and jeans his armor will be pumped way up.

On the realism note I fully agree. Sniper rifles have to be properly calibrated, put in position, etc.

But why shotguns and not say...an assault rifle, I mean sure you get the +1 DV but at the cost of a much higher clip and the ability to burst fire and auto fire (this is not including the Auto-Assault 16 or the Mossberg because the auto assault is to rare to start with and the mossberg's clip is impractically small for a FA weapons.

By the way I'm just questioning this because I love the flavor of the shotgun but I don't want to make a character who has a neat flavor but can do squat in combat

[DWC]

Becouse sniper rifles are really impractical to use in close quater combat( rules don't say anythink about this, but i think most GM:s will)
And shotguns are much cheaper then sniper rifles and if you get yourself one that is capable of burstfire the shotgun does pretty much same damage as sniper rifle or more.

Conveniently, SR4A does address this, adding a chance that you'll screw up your sniper rifle if you try to use it as a battle rifle. Admittedly, the MA-2100 is exempt from part of this, and I'd imagine the next Arsenal errata will also extend this exemption to the Desert Strike, but that's another story.

By the way, Automatics is the superior skill within the Firearms group. A machine pistol loaded with Stick'n'Shock or capsule rounds makes a very effective sidearm, an assault rifle with a silencer and an extended barrel makes a passable sniper rifle replacement, and an assault rifle with a barrel reduction makes a brutal close quarters weapon.

But if you have your heart set on a shotgun, remember one thing. Solid slugs are your friend, preferably explosive or EX-explosive slugs.

[Critias]

There also aren't many Sniper Rifles with availability 3 or 4, and can be bought for about five hundred nuyen. There are Sport Rifles that tote similar availability and price, but they're pretty exclusively single shot. Shotguns, and ammo for them, are everywhere, and are cheap and generic enough to be near-disposable. There's also the concealability issue to consider (though most folks will often take Automatics or Pistols for a sidearm, Shotguns offer you an option or two for smaller stuff, too).

Different guns for different folks, of course. What fits your character's background, budget, and the feel of the game should matter to you more than a +1 here or a -1 there.

[Summerstorm]

I think if you are using a 1,6 meter long and 15 kilogramm heavy sniperrifle while inddorfighting you are doing something very very wrong (one of the rifles states that it will be bent afterwards with a modifier, the ranger Arms SM-4) Also shotguns can use slugs (which does not grant more armor, it is even more common than using shot) and a automatic shotgun easily outperforms an assaultrifle if you are near enough (all the time, in urban warfare)

My experience is in 3rd edition... but much of it translates to 4th so here is my opinion:

Hold-outs - hm hm... well if you really need it you can place them all over your body and no one will ever know. work great with a hidden arm slide.
Light pistols: You don't want them to know that you are packing, but still have a decent amount of pain. (they got better now in SR4 in my opinion)
Heavy Pistols: Now these are meant to really hurt. My characters often dual wield these in 3rd... they are exact, don't use that much ammo (and have enough capacity) and shred through normal armor easily.
Sub-Machine guns and auto pistols: I don't really like these to much, but if you have one with fullauto mode you can use one of them in each hand to lay down surpressing fire double the duration without reloading than with an assault rifle. Normaly they aren't that good with recoildampaning, so they are not as exact... Also they of course pack a great punch against slightly better armored foes.
Assault rifles: Now these you need if you WANT to start a war. If you expect heavily armored foes, you need full-auto. They allow for bursts, supressing fire, have good ammo, great range... but you will never be able to walk around with one under normal conditions. Very hard to get them unnoticed into buildings, or secure areas.
Assault cannon: If you need these... you either have a problem, or you are playing an AWESOME campaign *g*
Sniperrifle: Yay, support fire... don't you just love it, killing people and they can't do anything about it? Also great to bring insanely heavy armored people to their knees.
Special weapons: Well, everything that squirts dmso+Neurostun/Poison/anything, Bows, throwing weapons, Taseres and such normaly are an attempt to circumvent the armor of guys. Going against impact armor, often even halving it... used to get someone quickly down, but cost more per shot (and have very limited ammo and other drawback)
Also: Grenades=win.
If you are rich enough and/or good enough to hit your targets without wasting to much ammo: APDS, Ex-Ex or other special ammo is now something for you *g*

I normaly fall back to these combat styles: Very high skill, with silenced small pistols and hold outs (infiltrator), Chem weapons (Infiltrator), high-reflex and many IP's + ambidextrous double Heavy Pistols or automatic sub-machineguns for tearing up shit (bars, gangs, small security units). Assault rifles, grenade launchers and Autoshotguns = Urban warfare (You are doing something wrong, but it may happen so prepare). Of course having a character who is only prepared for one of these, and has no special options will be... boned. Only taking longarms seems a bad idea for me, if you are somewhere else than in Jungle or desert, killing soldiers and mercs. Pistols you can carry around and have proper permits for and no one will bother you.

[Captain Aardvark]

I usualy chose weapons from what I think is cool, and what fits the character. Shotguns are cool, and I can use them to intimidate people. Nothing says talk like a guy shoving a shotgun in your crotch. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Ancient History]

This is an Ares Predator IV. It is the most recognizable heavy pistol in the world. When you point this at someone's head, they know that if you even think then they are dead, and there will be a hole in their sorry skull big enough to piss through. Some of these other guns might be fancy and ergonomic and fit your strange, feminine elf grip better, but half of them look like fucking water pistols or alien ray guns out of the sims. This is an Ares Predator IV, and it gets the job done.

[Stahlseele]

Burst Capable Shotguns.
For everything else, there's a silenced SMG that shoots Gel/Stick'n'Shock or something else that will most likely take someone down nice and quiet fast.

[paws2sky]

The Franchi SPAS-22 is a personal favorite. The buckshot rules are kind of screwy (expensive AND ineffective! yay...). I prefer to go with EX-Explosive or Gel rounds.

The Ruger 100 and Remington sport rifles are nice, even straight out of the box. Easily modded up to a Mare's Leg a la Zoe from Firefly/Serenity.

For a concealable less-than-lethal weapon, I think you've have a hard time beating the Fichetti Security 600 with Internal Smartlink, Fully Ceramic Parts, Shortened Barrel, Internal Silencer, and Stick-N-Shock ammo. Huge ammo capacity, very concealable, very good at defeating armor. (It'll only set you back several thousand nuyen...)

For a heavy pistol, I like the Ruger Super Warhawk with Firing Selection Mod (SA), Personalized Grips, Increased Cylinder, Quick Draw Holster, and either APDS or EX-Explosive. Heck, even Gel rounds are halfway decent in this beast. Custom Look is optional, but recommended.

In short, I take some weapons for effectiveness, some for style. Most are a mix of both.

-paws

[Octopiii]

Looking at the Anniversary edition, the damage code for the Ares Slivergun is 8p(f) but the armor modification is only +2.
The Remington 990 also has the same issue: 9p(f), +2

The Remington Roomsweeper has the Flechette damage code listed as 7p(f) and armor mod of +5.
The Raecor Sting, Mossburg Shotgun and Frag grenade and Frag rocket also have the proper armor modification listed.

So are those two weapons special? The slivergun in particular would be a pretty nasty handgun.

[DWC]

Looking at the Anniversary edition, the damage code for the Ares Slivergun is 8p(f) but the armor modification is only +2.
The Remington 990 also has the same issue: 9p(f), +2

The Remington Roomsweeper has the Flechette damage code listed as 7p(f) and armor mod of +5.
The Raecor Sting, Mossburg Shotgun and Frag grenade and Frag rocket also have the proper armor modification listed.

So are those two weapons special? The slivergun in particularly would be a pretty nasty handgun.

The updated version of the SR4A PDF sorted that typo and boosted them back to the +5 AP.

Almost forgot my other favorite. You can't go wrong with a crate of Ares Predator IVs that you use once, then drop in a barrel of thermite.

[Dumori]

My funest weapon so far was a punch dagger with a 2 shot 7P pistol in it. I plan was that on the rune while moving to engage in melee you cold fire of the two SA shots. Another go one is the how low you can get the concelability on a hold out if you don't need much range. I think I had it under -8 while a 5 round clip and a 15m range aint the best form my stealth char it worked perfectly for silent take downs.

[Octopiii]

The Slivergun is still a good contender for your pistol needs - with a narrow burst, you're up to 10p. Do a called shot to bypass armor: "I shoot him in the face" and your opponent's visage becomes a spray of goo. Oh, and it comes with 30(!) bullets per clip.

[Dumori]

The Slivergun is still a good contender for your pistol needs - with a narrow burst, you're up to 10p. Do a called shot to bypass armor: "I shoot him in the face" and your opponent's visage becomes a spray of goo. Oh, and it comes with 30(!) bullets per clip.

Ah the good old ghoul slayer. In a game based around working as pest control that was the sidearm of choice a long with a shotgun.

[Stahlseele]

If you want pure Useability?
Go SMG/Assault-Rifle only.
One for Short Range Bursts, the other for long Range.
For style, you just can't beat a good old Pump Action Shortgun.
The Ka-CHACK should induce instant resolve test in anybody hearing that behind his head.
And the Burst/Fully automatic Shortguns should come directly after the nice and soothing whirrr or a Minigun ^^

[Dumori]

the Auto-Assulte modded with two 40 round drums song slug one shot is lethal. 6 turns of suppressive fire and the ability to red mist hoards. Or use SA and just keep shooting.

[Dikotana]

Don't think of the shot rules as a reason not to use shotguns. Against most opponents you don't want shot, you want slugs. Then you're just using a shorter-range, non-burst, heavy-hitting rifle. Reduce the barrel and you can even conceal it, although you also lose even more range. It has its advantages and disadvantages.

If you need crowd control, though, or end up fighting packs of animals, or the aforementioned ghouls, shot is your friend. It's an option. Carry around some shot for when you need it and otherwise stick with treating your shotgun as a good ol' slug thrower.

[Stahlseele]

the Auto-Assulte modded with two 40 round drums song slug one shot is lethal. 6 turns of suppressive fire and the ability to red mist hoards. Or use SA and just keep shooting.

Do that with Flechette and you can fill whole football fields with flying death.

[Captain Aardvark]

And if your demo-expert has lost his explosives (or is a red splat on the wall a couple of rooms back), you can use it as a skeleton-key.

[Bob Lord of Evil]

A firearm is a tool.

Do you use a crescent wrench to pound a nail? Of course not.

The right tool for the job.

Sniper rifles are great for those occasions where you need to be a long way out from the target and need to be able to take out said target with a single shot.

A shotgun is excellent for close in work, slugs/flechettes pick your flavor.

You need to be quiet though? Well a heavy pistol with a silencer is going to be better than a shotgun.

Assault rifles are pretty good intermediate weapons. They have decent range (not great but good) and can handle close up work nicely. Add a grenade launcher and you can handle a wide variety of targets.

SMG's are better for close work, where you want more punch than a pistol but need to have something that is more concealable than a shotgun.

Need to take down a target but keep them alive? Well, a taser or a paintball gun w/ DMSO and tranq are good routes. You could even use a slap patch.

Be flexible, look at the situation, think of contingencies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/grinbig.gif)

[Cadmus]

What about Rope? Charlie bronson always has rope, and they always end up using it.

[Cthulhudreams]

Shotguns are bad. The best weapon group depends on the role, an how you think the rules for exotic weapon skill is supposed to work. I'm not sure if they've clarified trhis in SR4A, but at least in the orginal book the description how exotic weapon skills are supposed to work is inconsistent with every single example in the book.

If its you need 1 exotic weapon skill for every unique weapon, it blows

If exotic melee: Ranged gives you every exotic ranged weapon, it is good

A) For street sammie you want long arms, exotic melee weapons (monowhip) and potentially squirt guns (see above)

B) For anyone who's main job isn't killing people with guns, Automatics is just better. Pistols with spec: Semi-auto is a distant second.

[Stahlseele]

Shotguns have more Range and Damage than heavy Pistols and more Options than Rifles.
If you plan on using the Shotgun for Stuff other People would use Heavy Pistols for, you are probably getting more Bang for your Buck ^^

[Cthulhudreams]

The thing you want to do with pistols is 'carry it in a concealed manner' which is hard with shotguns.