Do you have an elf section?, shopping in the 2070's Options

[Snow_Fox]

Guys I'm pretty sure you don't have this problem but if you're a petit woman the proportions are usually different for non-petit women. I'm 5' 1" and usually have to look for petit sections when shopping. Stores that have them get a lot of my business.

This got me thinking. rather obviously Trolls and Dwarves have varstly different sizes/sections and orks are really bulked up but it occured to me that elves would probably have significantly different sizes too. Sure you can go by leg/waist/hip measurments but today just finding jeans with a good fit is hard, you learn to watch for particular brands that work with your shape, but add elven women to the mix with even more slender builds and it could get agonizing. SO do you have seperate sections for human/elf/orks or have race specfici stores? trust me guys, mixing the three almost normal sized races may work for guys but it is right out for ladies.

[Ancient History]

Maybe madame would like to try the children's section?

[Zen Shooter01]

Sure, it makes sense. Besides the issue of sizes, a lot of metatypes have their own cultural/subcultural identites, which would have their own styles. Similar to the way that hip hop fashion is popular mostly with black kids in America, but goth tends to a white demographic.

[Summerstorm]

Different shops for different Metatypes... more demand in custom made clothes (made by robots)

Also much use of cheap smart-materiels. Maybe cloth that shrink a bit, when too loose? (Would explain all this hot elven woman in those tight outfits.. hmmmm). Also heavy use of Nanofaxes to built your clothes in a few minutes from raw plastic. (It is mentioned in "Augmented")

[Vermithrax]

The wife is 4'8". We feel your pain.
Its fairly hard to find childrens clothes that aren't children themed somehow. Shoes are especially problematic.
She hates clothes shopping with me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/devil.gif)

[Hagga]

Guys I'm pretty sure you don't have this problem but if you're a petit woman the proportions are usually different for non-petit women. I'm 5' 1" and usually have to look for petit sections when shopping. Stores that have them get a lot of my business.

This got me thinking. rather obviously Trolls and Dwarves have varstly different sizes/sections and orks are really bulked up but it occured to me that elves would probably have significantly different sizes too. Sure you can go by leg/waist/hip measurments but today just finding jeans with a good fit is hard, you learn to watch for particular brands that work with your shape, but add elven women to the mix with even more slender builds and it could get agonizing. SO do you have seperate sections for human/elf/orks or have race specfici stores? trust me guys, mixing the three almost normal sized races may work for guys but it is right out for ladies.

Mortimer of London and Evo loves this tsuff; they do customisations for various metatypes. Evo especially does giant (metatype) sized guns.
And in response to the original post:
God help you if you don't fit into the metrosexual stereotype as a man and actually work out occasionally. You freak, you have shoulders wider than your hips! No, you shouldn't have visible pectorals! Your shirt isn't supposed to be tight, so we'll make it rip at the slightest provocation or you can wear a tent! Pardon me.

[Chrysalis]

Try being a woman who works out by doing heavy lifting. Luckily I am average size, but I do have trouble finding shirts that do not make me even more wide shouldered than I am.

The other is try being a guy who is 165cm tall, who is god forbid slim.

I would think that most upper class clothing stores in Shadowrun have a fitting screen. Once you walk into the store it calculates all of your sizes, an AR display asks if you would wish an AR assistant or a real one. Both can guide you to clothing that will fit you perfectly. I also suspect that a lot of clothing is now done as bespoke fitting. Certain sizes are ready, which are then sown to fit that body type in the store.

There are body types, which are common in that country. Finland the supposed average height according to clothing stores is 175 for women and 180 for men. Those who are of Swedish decent are taller, but their Finnish side shows in heavier bone structure.

Scotland the average sizes are 170 cms for women and men. Although women also come in 175 cms truck driver size and men in 160cm no neck sizes.

[Stingray]

Different shops for different Metatypes... more demand in custom made clothes (made by robots)

Also much use of cheap smart-materiels. Maybe cloth that shrink a bit, when too loose? (Would explain all this hot elven woman in those tight outfits.. hmmmm). Also heavy use of Nanofaxes to built your clothes in a few minutes from raw plastic. (It is mentioned in "Augmented")

Evo hasn't forgotten its other per cause"metahuman factors engineering"(designing and produsing
metahuman-friendly products) and is still leads the megas is goods and services designed with orks,trolls,elves,
dwarwes,changelings and other non-human people in mind.(BBB p.42) just walk in the shop, no
matter what metatype you are..

[Backgammon]

Part of the problem should be alieviated by Matrix shopping. Just jump into VR mode and go virtually shop. You can try anything on and they always have all the right sizes and deliver it to you doorstep tomorrow.

However, the problem with that is the shopping experience. There's a great passage in Woken Furies (I think) where the main character talks about how virtual shopping can never replace physical shopping, because the goal of shopping is not to acquire clothes. It's to walk around, try shit on, move on, haggle, etc. So you're still going to have the pack of 2 elven teenagers and their Troll friend (always has to be an ugly one) hitting the mall.

We could have a debate over it, but elven women probably earn better salaries than the average. So I think there would be elf-only stores, cathering to their image, rather than elf section in other stores (except for the high couture fashion houses). Your more general store would need at least 50% orc sizes since there are lots of those and a couple of Troll sizes, maybe. I think dwarves are shit out of luck because it's hard to design a piece of clothe that will work for a dwarf as well as normal size. You gotta design something completely different.

[paws2sky]

On the flip side, my wife is pushing 6' tall. If she wants soemthign that fits well, she needs to buy it online or have it tailored. Everything is either too small (in some way) or made for women shaped like beach balls. (Her words)

And don't get her started about shopping for bras...

-paws

[Stingray]

Part of the problem should be alieviated by Matrix shopping. Just jump into VR mode and go virtually shop. You can try anything on and they always have all the right sizes and deliver it to you doorstep tomorrow.

However, the problem with that is the shopping experience. There's a great passage in Woken Furies (I think) where the main character talks about how virtual shopping can never replace physical shopping, because the goal of shopping is not to acquire clothes. It's to walk around, try shit on, move on, haggle, etc. So you're still going to have the pack of 2 elven teenagers and their Troll friend (always has to be an ugly one) hitting the mall.

We could have a debate over it, but elven women probably earn better salaries than the average. So I think there would be elf-only stores, cathering to their image, rather than elf section in other stores (except for the high couture fashion houses). Your more general store would need at least 50% orc sizes since there are lots of those and a couple of Troll sizes, maybe. I think dwarves are shit out of luck because it's hard to design a piece of clothe that will work for a dwarf as well as normal size. You gotta design something completely different.

.. in the 2070 major clothing manufacturers would make same clothes for all basic metatypes,
that is a reason why dwarwes must pay 10 % and trolls 25 % extra (less market)

[Hagga]

Try being a woman who works out by doing heavy lifting. Luckily I am average size, but I do have trouble finding shirts that do not make me even more wide shouldered than I am.

The other is try being a guy who is 165cm tall, who is god forbid slim.

The 165 tall slim bloke is easy to fit - I wade through hordes of them every time I leave the house. The heavy lifting lady I cannot sympathise with, as I am not female. I just have trouble finding any clothes that fit me without looking like I am trying to imitate an american rapper.

I suppose there would definately be stores for the various metatypes alone - be a real troll, shop at Dermal Deposit Dan's - free dwarf with every order. The racism is there. Especially at the upper ends, for the elves, humans.

[DireRadiant]

However, the problem with that is the shopping experience. There's a great passage in Woken Furies (I think) where the main character talks about how virtual shopping can never replace physical shopping, because the goal of shopping is not to acquire clothes. It's to walk around, try shit on, move on, haggle, etc. So you're still going to have the pack of 2 elven teenagers and their Troll friend (always has to be an ugly one) hitting the mall.

Broken Angels, only because I just read that last week and am in the middle of Woken Furies right now.

And Mr Big and Tall stores have an even larger market in 2070....

[rathmun]

Broken Angels, only because I just read that last week and am in the middle of Woken Furies right now.

And Mr Big and Tall stores have an even larger market in 2070....

Good point, I shop at B&T somewhat frequently as I'm 6'5" (195cm). They have clothing in stock that would fit a small troll right now. I'd give it about a week after UGE before they have entire lines of clothing made to fit trolls. Their manufacturing is already set up to handle nearly that size, so they'd have a head start on the market.

[Tiger Eyes]

There is always Telestrian Industries. They've got a clothing line or two (or twenty). (Telestrian Industries is based in Tir Tairgire.)

Evo, like others have said, is the Meta-friendly mega, "one size does not fit all." Need evening wear for a Centaur? Shop Evo! Bathing suits for trolls? Shop Evo! Baby slings for ork litters? Shop Evo!

[Snow_Fox]

On the flip side, my wife is pushing 6' tall. If she wants soemthign that fits well, she needs to buy it online or have it tailored. Everything is either too small (in some way) or made for women shaped like beach balls. (Her words)

And don't get her started about shopping for bras...

-paws

Give her a sympathy hug for me.

Stingray, sure, they have these issues built in for just the number crunching but I'm more interested in how the gaems world runs than just number crunching. Like a meet in a mall, "Meet me in the elf shoes dept in Macy's"

yeah part of the fun in shopping is looknig to see what you can find, not just grabbing what you know you need. I can find damn near any book on amazon, but prowling a book store is so much more fun.

[Snow_Fox]

The other thing people seem to be asuming is that all elves have lots of money for exclusive sotres. There are poor elves too, working class joes who are using the 2070's Target and Walmart with maybe saying their (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for those good clothes more upmarket at Macy's or sears etc, but for day to dy they have to get most of their clothes somewhere.

[Chrysalis]

I was thinking about this yesterday.

I think in some ways the ideal body image for a woman in the sixth world is that of an elf (some of the clothing designs today seem to be modeled to fit the ultra slim eighteen year old dancer with a boob job). The youth section of clothing will mostly have things which will fit elves.

I think in some ways the ideal body image for a man in the sixth world is that of an ork. Short, but muscular.

The youth section will continue to lead popular fashion trends as long as the bodymorphism of old age continues to be pushed back.

Target and Wal-Mart clothing of the sixth world will continue to look like cheap knock-offs of more expensive designs. Nonetheless, people will still shop in mid to high-end places. This is because in a materialistic world the only thing that differentiates you from everyone else is your clothes and accessories and the image you are going after.

I also suspect that AR overlays are the newest hot fashion accessory. When you have a sparkling top, in AR it actually does sparkle. The flames on your shirt move, the skull laughs with that house of horrors laugh.

The cheap-end clothing like today will most likely not fit right, be made cheaply, and will make you look like a sack with a bit of twine rapped around it. High end clothing will accentuate and improve the display of your body.

[Kerenshara]

Guys I'm pretty sure you don't have this problem but if you're a petit woman the proportions are usually different for non-petit women. I'm 5' 1" and usually have to look for petit sections when shopping. Stores that have them get a lot of my business.

This got me thinking. rather obviously Trolls and Dwarves have varstly different sizes/sections and orks are really bulked up but it occured to me that elves would probably have significantly different sizes too. Sure you can go by leg/waist/hip measurments but today just finding jeans with a good fit is hard, you learn to watch for particular brands that work with your shape, but add elven women to the mix with even more slender builds and it could get agonizing. SO do you have seperate sections for human/elf/orks or have race specfici stores? trust me guys, mixing the three almost normal sized races may work for guys but it is right out for ladies.

Can I just point out that the painful reality is that the SR elven shape is where the fashion industry has been relentlessly pushing us since the 1980s? You'd probably have a better selection in the coture shops; In fact, they would probably fit you BETTER than a human. Just a thought.

[Backgammon]

The other thing people seem to be asuming is that all elves have lots of money for exclusive sotres. There are poor elves too, working class joes who are using the 2070's Target and Walmart with maybe saying their (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) for those good clothes more upmarket at Macy's or sears etc, but for day to dy they have to get most of their clothes somewhere.

Well, you know a lot of good looking poor girls? It's a proven fact good looking people do much better in life in terms of employment. Elves are pretty damn good looking. They also live to be a gazilion years - that's a loooong time to amass wealth. Good looking people tend to inherently be more slaves to fashion too. I think elf-only stores would be more common that any other meta-only store.

[knasser]

Given the poverty of big chunks of Western society in SR, you'd probably see a resurgence in people making their own clothes and other things. People in the West tend not to do much sewing and maintenance of clothes because their wealth is enough to make it not worth their time when they can pay others (via the medium of mass-produced clothes in poorer countries) to do it all for them. But a Barrens resident has nothing to exchange for these goods, so I imagine the Barrens would see quite a few people taking up traditional activities such as sewing. The "Barrens Look" could even become a parodied fashion movement in wealthier society with clothes looking like they'd been sewed together from mismatched pieces. (Stylishly of course).

[Kerenshara]

Given the poverty of big chunks of Western society in SR, you'd probably see a resurgence in people making their own clothes and other things. People in the West tend not to do much sewing and maintenance of clothes because their wealth is enough to make it not worth their time when they can pay others (via the medium of mass-produced clothes in poorer countries) to do it all for them. But a Barrens resident has nothing to exchange for these goods, so I imagine the Barrens would see quite a few people taking up traditional activities such as sewing. The "Barrens Look" could even become a parodied fashion movement in wealthier society with clothes looking like they'd been sewed together from mismatched pieces. (Stylishly of course).

Interesting premise, but I see it somewhat diferently, and here's why:
To make your own clothing, you require the base materials. Modern synthetics come from factories controled by the corps, who would love to charge you for the design and assembly of the clothing. I don't see them selling the synthetic materials on the open market inexpensively enough to make self-design and assembly practical as a means to save meaningful amounts of money.
The other option would be to use available materials to make your on base fabrics. That means access to things like sheep, cotton or hemp (no jokes about the hemp, please). I don't see the corps opening access to their automated farms, and it's hard to get useful amounts of those natural materials in a 'plex from the source, as it were.
And to put the final nail in the coffin, a set of flats is so rediculously inexpensive, even somebody on the street can afford a set a month and just wear the tattered rags until they fall off.
The single exception I can see might be genuine leather, since the NAN embrace a more hollistic approach; sure they have corps, but I can't see them being QUITE so inhumane as Aztechnology or SK. That might mean that your "Barens Look", if any, would probably be composed of lots of leather held together by simple cast or cast-off buckles and studs. And yes, I CAN see such a look being parodied and "orksploited" for profit amongst those with the means to play at such a thing.

[knasser]

For raw material, I was thinking that existing clothes would be the source. Hear me out: Obviously you could just wear cast-off clothing and I would see that as being the norm. The thing is, that much of the clothing in the West, at least in the UK, is rubbish quality. Really rubbish. I don't know how they get away with it, except in the same way they get away with so much in the UK which is people's ignorance about what things are like abroad. I can get some decent trousers in Egypt that will last five times as long as something from Next or other high-street UK clothing stores. UK clothes seem to be designed to fall apart quickly so that you have to buy more. Hagga above complained about getting decent clothing if you're not a skinny bloke. I think that's quite true actually. If you're skinny, you can find clothing that will fit. If you're fat, then you can find clothing that will fit. But if you're muscular you start having trouble. My friend who does quite a bit of weights and cycling has terrible trouble with trousers because anything that fits his legs is hugely baggy around the waist (because it's assumed that big legs are from being fat) and anything that fits him around the waist he often can't even get on because the legs are so tight on him). I know this because he complains about it all the time. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) Getting back to the point, I see the situation being as bad or worse in a world dominated by megacorps. Hand-me-down clothes are going to need patching, darning, etc. So why not stitch a few shirts back together again. It probably gets cold in the Barrens in Winter with no heating so maybe a "super-shirt" made up of five cast-offs, or better, a quilted jacket (easy to make if you care about it keeping someone warm rather than looking in any way like a professional job). I see your points and they make sense, but I do still see people picking up some more of the traditional crafts in the Barrens. I could see this in other areas as well such as cooking.

You made me think about other source materials people might use, though. Now if you were a ghoul, and you'd eaten all the good bits, just think what you could do with all that skin and hair. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Also, maybe the Barrens wouldn't be as ungreen as we think they are (at least in realism mode, not in canon). I read an interesting article on how long it takes nature to return to a city after its been abandoned. It's possible that the Barrens residents could be growing a few things. Not crops that they could live off, but wildlife might be returning slowly, and where there are animals there are materials for clothes. Can you imagine some Barrens gang-leader resplendent in his dog-skin pants? (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[Snow_Fox]

sure fashion models today are going for that stick figure/elf look but realitry we have curves. hips, back sides and boobs. We might asspire to what the media tells us is 'perfection' but the truth is I am not going ot have thatlook in jeans.

This actually started out because of my husband. We were in a bar and he pointed out the bartenders, a tall leggy blond. she was fending off several drunks competantly and Tim said to me "God knows why they'll hitting on her, she's got no but." That made me pay attnetion as I had already been thinking 'tall, leggy, blond, yup elf' but that made me pay attnetion to the cut of the jeans and I know I have a btter back side than she had but those jeans of hers would just not work on me with shorter legs and better curves on hips and but. So while high fashion might be elf like reality is going to be differnet, just like RL.

Also don't over look the Japanese market power. Japanocorps control a lot of the media and they have an anti-meta prejudice. They may well be playing down leggy for the more traditional Japanese 'cute' look, that's RL and mentioned in shadows of Asia. In one of the novels as reporter had cosmetic surgery to look more NAN/Asian to boost her career.

Allow for latin taste as well. in RL look at the fashions on Spanish language TV. stick figure elfs would be competeing with busty latinas in the media and since AZT controlls many consumer goods they will be pushing back in the meida too.

[Backgammon]

There is also the impact of ubiquitous plastic surgery. There's no reason for that elf girl to have no butt. Implants are cheap, safe and easy to acquire.

Most well-off girls are gonna get boob jobs as high school graduation presents or even before. Lip and buttocks implants are going to be as commonplace. If you can afford to buy decent clothes, you can afford implant to round off your silhouette.