Unconsciousness and Spell Resistance Options

[Dashifen]

Do unconcious characters, either through drugs or through damage, get to resist spells? Obviously, illusions probably don't make sense because I think you need to be conscious of the illusion to even have the chance of resisting it. But, if what about spells like mana- or powerbolt?

-- Dashifen --

[Lilt]

Wow. Interesting point. There's also the question of wether or not they resist all spells, in which case things like heal can't be cast on them, or wether they subconciously choose what to resist.

[spotlite]

Under mindprobe I beleive the basic TN# is 4 with no resisitance test if the target is unconscious. If that's the case, then I'd say that rule would hold true of all spells.

[moosegod]

I'd say you resist all damaging/screw you up spells.

And do not resist healing spells.

After all, you are running on automatic.

[Lilt]

Hmm. With the canon example of someone not getting a resistance roll when they're unconcious I'd say no to resistance rolls (except against elemental manipulations, which are actually damage resistance tests) against spells when unconcious.

[sable twilight]

Well, taking a cue from those that practice magickal ritual in real life, I would likely go along with what the idea that the subconscious will of the character would deterring if a spell is resisted or not. Things that the subconscious would obviously or directly benefit the body would be allowed. Thus the subconscious would likely allow healing magic, such as Treat, Heal, spells to cure poisons or toxins, etc., while resist all others. Since the subconscious is not very sophisticated in terms of reasoning, and, for the most part, does not look past immediate circumstances or need, thus even spells like Armor or Levitate I would rule being resisted, sine their benefits are likley not obvious to the subconscious.

Spells such as Mind Probe are actually detection spells. Since it is a detection spell the intent of the magic is not to directly influence the mind of the target only try to perceive what is already there. When a person is unconscious the mind not as cluttered with the random barrage of thoughts, images, internal dialogue, etc. that normally make Mind Probe more difficult.

[Kagetenshi]

I really don't like the idea of letting someone "know" whether magic is harmful or beneficial. I'd say either everything is resisted or everything is unresisted.

~J

[sable twilight]

That's why you don't let them know when they are unconsious, just make the resistance for them.

[Jason Farlander]

This has been discussed before I think. Anyway, on page 183 in SR3, it says "Living targets may always make a Spell Resistance Test against spells, unless the target of the spell is willing." Since an unconscious target can not indicate his or her willingness to accept a spell, he or she would get a resistance test automatically.

The condition is not that you must be unwilling to get a resistance test, but that you must be willing to accept the spell to bypass the automatic resistance test.

[Talia Invierno]

I would suggest it should definitely be all or none: either the unconscious person instinctively and on a very deep level resists all magic interfering with them (including Healing and Detection, without distinction for whether the magic would be beneficial to them or not), or they don't resist at all.

[Jason Farlander]

[Talia Invierno]

So that would suggest only one of the options I gave could be valid :)

[Jason Farlander]

-sigh- I suppose I should provide the entire quote, though the fact that it mentions health spells specifically in that first part should *imply* the rest.

[sable twilight]

So it looks like the issue has already been resolved by the rules, with spells that have a special exception (such as Mind Probe) having that noted in the spell description.

[Jason Farlander]

I must admit that I'm a bit confused about all of this talk concerning the mind probe spell.

Here is the entirety of the description in my book (the 12th printing):

[Talia Invierno]

I stand corrected. Thanks, Jason. (That will teach me to post on canon issues without having the sources on me! :spin: )

[Kagetenshi]

So even harmful Health spells are unresisted on unconscious targets. I like that solution.

~J

[Dashifen]

Good. Glad there was something in the books that I could use to back myself up with. Had this happen when one of my NPCs resisted a spell after being knocked unconscious and the others in the group said that it wasn't fair. I said we'd move on I'd make a ruling on it later. Now, I can.

Thanks everyone!!!

-- Dash --