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> More successes with low skills
GoldenAri
post Jan 20 2004, 12:10 AM
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QUOTE
Only if your Gm lets it. Frequently you get it back at the end of the run.


Irregardless, it still comes back. It's not gone, just used.
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Siege
post Jan 20 2004, 12:11 AM
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QUOTE (GoldenAri)
I do have a question about the social pool. When would you ever have to split your dice? Why not just give everyone bonus dice to a CHA linked skills equal to the pool?

That's a good question -- except for contested negotiations.

+dice to Negotiation
+dice to Willpower to resist counter-negotiations

Any other thoughts?

-Siege
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RedmondLarry
post Jan 20 2004, 01:17 AM
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QUOTE (GoldenAri @ Jan 19 2004, 04:06 PM)
You can {use Karma Pool to} buy extra dice {for a test} at a one to one ratio and it comes back at the end of the scene.

It's not one-for-one. First die costs one, the second die costs two more. So buying two dice costs three total. Limits on buying extra dice are listed with the rule on SR3 p. 246.

The end of the 'scene' in 3rd edition is an extended period of time the GM determines, which may often be the end of the adventure. The longest scene I ever ran was about 3 weeks of character time.
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GoldenAri
post Jan 20 2004, 01:28 AM
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Well, isn't that just crap-tastic. I've always let my players buy them at a one to one thinking that that was how it worked, and they still never do.
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Rev
post Jan 20 2004, 01:28 AM
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QUOTE (Siege)
QUOTE (GoldenAri @ Jan 20 2004, 12:09 AM)
I do have a question about the social pool.  When would you ever have to split your dice?  Why not just give everyone bonus dice to a CHA linked skills equal to the pool?

That's a good question -- except for contested negotiations.

+dice to Negotiation
+dice to Willpower to resist counter-negotiations

Any other thoughts?

-Siege

I don't think it will work very well if it is a pool that refreshes every 3 seconds like combat, hacking, spell, astral... and task (which doesn't work well already, but at least it is small).

If you had it refresh on a per "interaction" basis or something it would probably work better.

example: While negotiating with mr Johnson you make the following tests:
Interrogation to get him to tell you more.
Negotiation to get more money.
Ettiquette to impress him.
and the pool has to be split between them, even though they happen over half an hour or whatever.

Anyway thats what I think would be needed to make such a thing work. If you even want to have everyone make all these rolls.
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mfb
post Jan 20 2004, 11:07 AM
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just have it refresh at the same rate as kp.
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Talia Invierno
post Jan 20 2004, 04:07 PM
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We've refreshed it using a rough "scene" concept: one full set of transactions with the persons directly involved - which is more or less what Rev already said. (GM's call, obviously, but we've never had issues over different understandings of what constituted a "full transaction".) Module situations make it even more straightforward: social pool would refresh at the end of each module chapter.

Consider, however, what the average CH is selected to be in so very many (not all!) cases: and extrapolate what the social pool would be. I think I'm one of the few who regularly plays PCs who do make it large enough even to consider splitting.

Edit: I've seen quite a few posts on Dumpshock as to how useless this pool is, roughly 3:1 against v. in favour, so that may have shaped part of my perception of the "average".
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Siege
post Jan 20 2004, 10:25 PM
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How often do you throw large amounts of dice in Social interactions?

Negotiations: throw dice versus target's Willpower, the opponent does the same.

Where would the social pool fit in? Add dice to initial skill dice and perhaps save some for Willpower.

I'd like to see something like a Social pool, but so far I can't figure out how to make it fly and be reasonably balanced.

-Siege
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Tiralee
post Jan 21 2004, 01:30 AM
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QUOTE
How often do you throw large amounts of dice in Social interactions?

Negotiations: throw dice versus target's Willpower, the opponent does the same.


Lots! But I play Charasmatic characters!

Wait, got to check something now - Page 84, core rules.

QUOTE
Negotiation - Target's Intelligence as the TN.


:eek:

Heh - I always used their skill (Neg) or Charisma.

Ohhh, but are my Players are gonna KICK my ass...

Well, that will teach me for not re-reading those damn skills.

L:
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Talia Invierno
post Jan 21 2004, 03:00 PM
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Using a Shadowbeat (hostile interview) template allows the target to resist using IN (wits), CH (charm, force of personality), or WL (just sheer stubbornness/obstinancy).

No reason there should only be one way to resist being manipulated!
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spotlite
post Jan 21 2004, 06:01 PM
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A social pool! I wrote some rules for something similar once. The details aren't that important but I was building an 'entertainer' adept, someone with some unique adept powers. There was a sonic damage one which cos about double what killing hands does, for example, and a metamagic technique similar to cleansing but worked on active emotions - it could be used to calm or incite a crowd, or defuse a tense situation with the sound of the adepts voice doing something appropriate like singing or negotiating, and in effect all it did was lower social test target numbers. I wanted to introduce it for my players but never really got around to it, but it introduced a new social pool to make some of the powers work, but I couldn't justify not making it available to normal characters - there are plenty of people who are especially good at the sort of things it applies to who are completely mundane. It was as yours is, 1/2 CHR and INT.

As for how often it refreshed, it refreshed every combat turn. But if you weren't in combat, we have a standing rule generally anyway that 'combat turn' no longer means 3 seconds. If you aren't rolling inititiative, we work out what your average initiative is (using 3 as the average dice roll), and give you that many actions or tests before your pools refresh. So if you are decking, and not rolling initiative, your pool will only refresh every three to five actions - however long those actions take to accomplish, unless you trigger a combat encounter or time becomes a pressing issue and initiative needs to be rolled. The social pool would've worked the same way - if you had 2 actions by the above system, then you could make a Negotiation (bribery) check to get past the guard on the gate, but unless you rolled for initiative between then and needing to fast talk your way past the secretary, to the exec's office, the pool wouldn't have refreshed. Equally if you're just ringing round contacts for information. Your pool will need to be split amongst them.

Its a house rule, and subject to interpretation, but I think it would work (it certainly does for the other, canon dice pools), and I say go for it.

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Bölverk
post Jan 21 2004, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE (spotlite)
A social pool! I wrote some rules for something similar once. The details aren't that important but I was building an 'entertainer' adept, someone with some unique adept powers. There was a sonic damage one which cos about double what killing hands does, for example, and a metamagic technique similar to cleansing but worked on active emotions - it could be used to calm or incite a crowd, or defuse a tense situation with the sound of the adepts voice doing something appropriate like singing or negotiating, and in effect all it did was lower social test target numbers.


So basically, a bard? :P *ducks*

QUOTE (spotlite)
If you aren't rolling inititiative, we work out what your average initiative is (using 3 as the average dice roll), and give you that many actions or tests before your pools refresh. So if you are decking, and not rolling initiative, your pool will only refresh every three to five actions


Wait, so characters with faster reactions and initiative would have their pools refresh less often outside of combat than a slower character's would?
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