[X] My Assistant

[Valium]

I had this come into my mind while we were creating a new character with one of my players: How do you handle characters with valid SINs? How can they pay taxes, their rent or insurances (like they have any..) if they have no OFFICIAL income (no income = no taxes?)? Should every PC with a valid SIN have the day job flaw for making deposits to their accounts (you need a SIN for a legal day job, don't you)? What about the stock markets or businesses the PCs might go for? I bet someone would come knocking at your door if you made 20,000$ (just an example) deposits every month without any apparent job to back it up with... :P

Or does every shadowrunner always end up with a pile of certified credsticks to pay their bills with? I know this isn't what Shadowrun is about but for my upcoming campaign it's quite essential..

[Xirces]

There are rules for this in Shadowbeat - if no-one beats me to it I'll post something later...

[CanvasBack]

Interesting. My take is if you have a SIN you are carrying around a credstick that is in fact your character's true and valid I.D. and actual credit rating. Now this could mean the character does have a job or s/he might be unemployed, but if the character is employed then their credit rating is probably much higher than someone who isn't... Basically, just look at what lifestyle was paid for at character creation and that will tell you whether or not stopping off at the local fast food joint is no big deal or a major investment.

As far as taxes go, if you have a job the government probably takes its cut before the actual funds are even deposited in your characters' accounts. Wouldn't it be awful for a group of Shadowrunners to survive an Ares run only to be nailed by the IRS because they were paying for their lifestyle with certified sticks and not reporting them? :rotfl:

[spotlite]

Its reasonably easy to deal with. They simply don't use that SIN when sorting out payment, they have it in a certified form or trade, or it goes to another character who looks after it for them. I'm sure shadowland would offer some kind of black bank, I know the node in Asia does.

The problem comes because all that character's biometric data is linked to the SIN. They have to be damn careful not to leave evidence or the cops/corps WILL be knocking on their door.

Having a SIN grants all kinds of advantages, but as you point out, it also have big disadvantages for people in the shadows. Feel your way along, and buy the sprawl survival guide, its brilliant.

[moosegod]

We have a guy who has a valid SIN's and uses it for the teams legal transactions.

Of course, he worked for Doc Wagon, so he can buy LMG's for the Tilt-rotor the team subcontracts to Doc Wagon.

[Xirces]

According to Shadowbeat - stuff can be traced so money needs to be laundered (treat as fenced loot) and taxes need to be paid (33%, with some other rules for investigation and evasion).

Obviously if you had a SIN, you'd just act like you didn't (apart from legal things, which are generally to your advantage anyway) - use certified cred etc.

Which then makes me wonder what the difference is between that and a faked SIN and why runners aren't supposed to have SINs in the first place?

I hate the way that SINs work in SR. It's dumb.

[Accel]

There still remains the problem of tax-declaration. You just don't pay taxes without an income and when you earn something, you have to declare, how you earned it. (at least, in my country)

And giving the nature of the transparent citizen you get with the uncontrolled information society the world of 2060 constitutes, chances are high that the authority responsible for corporate taxation cross-checks with the authority of income taxation, whether or not an individual is really on one's company's payroll.

We avoided the problem by registering as small-time freelancers, mostly (data-analysis consultant, magical security consultant, even as environmental control consultant). Or you declare, you work for a chummer's business (like our rigger as mechanic for his vehicle dealer)

[sable twilight]

My Raven Shaman declares her income comes from freelance contracting and consulting jobs (which it does, technically). I'm sure that by 2060 there are enough of laws concerning client confidentiality, especially for those utilizing magical services, that she does have worry about declaring who she consults for.

[Talia Invierno]

Trying this again, so hoping re-wording will be adequate (sigh).

What I found, when I began running SINning PCs, was that visible spending has to match visible income, which (as Xirces noted earlier) is taxed at 33% (higher in other, non-UCAS countries, and sometimes double-taxed). At one extreme, with the PC who runs a small magical (and generally peaceful) security industry to give himself a legit veneer, it amounted to my having to keep two separate running accounts of nuyen spent and where legit nuyen could flow through to purchase used-in-shadow items, and vice versa.

A surprising amount can be covered under business expenses (sort of - don't try it to this extent in real life!). In this example - with a Knowledge skill in Business (edit: I'd suggest using this skill in opposed tests to cover more creative income laundering) - after paying the 33% tax off the gross intake, the business completely covered all computer and magical library related expenses and permits, as well as a comfortably high lifestyle ("home office"), most transportation ("transportation", "examining feasibility of expansion"), research ("research"), elemental-conjuring components ("business expenses" - the business maintains elemental-guarded wards), even hiring a gang through several intermediaries to attack the protected compound and be thwarted by its defenses ("business expenses" - that one was tricky - I think I ended up hiding it under "goodwill" [don't ask]). In addition, the business pays its PC owner a quite nice little income (I think it's properly called "retained earnings") which itself is taxed at 33% (yes, this is double-taxation, and there are ways around it, but he chooses not to find them and elicit fewer possible IRS questions), which can be used to cover broad-spectrum immunisation or a DocWagon contract (although he'd never go for that last).

Shadow income can't be used to cover anything visible that can't be directly justified under the SINned, taxable income source. This cuts out most armed vehicles, weaponry, non-legal 'ware, even many contact-related expenses, and definitely the shadow boltholes.

The advantage of the SINner is that their SIN will always cover muster (making travel among other things much easier), they pay one level less than the SINless for various lifestyle-related expenses, and they are generally exponentially less subject to random hassle. The advantage of the SINless or fake SINned is that they don't have to justify every visible possession: if they have the power to maintain ownership (against other would-be's, enemies, and the system as a whole), they can keep it without further risk to their electronic existence.

Edit: it goes without saying that these rules don't apply the same way to the powerful NPCs - just to us average shadow-Joes.

[simonw2000]

According to CANON, the player gets to choose whether or not his character has a real SIN at the start of the game! :D :grinbig: