Vehicle Control Rig, Essence why? Options

[Dr. Dodge]

Does anybody else think it's weird you can go Hot Sim VR with trodes but you need a cybeware implant for rigging? In other words, why is there no non-cyberware version of the control rig?

[Adarael]

That's because you can control your car with a simrig, but you can't control it with the level of intimacy a control rig provides. You get a bonus for computer-aided control, but the purpose of the control rig is to allow the vehicle to become your 'body'. You don't increase the throttle or open up the acellerator: you flex your engine, and go faster. You don't turn the wheel to turn or think left... you just GO left. The reason there's no non-cyberware version is that the control rig wires into your brainstem.

[Dr. Dodge]

....The reason there's no non-cyberware version is that the control rig wires into your brainstem.

See I could buy this if you needed a datajack or something for full VR (in other words have to pay essence), but you don't...so why do riggers get the shaft? Where's my brain stem trode!!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Octopiii]

You don't. A Control Rig just adds +2 dice. All you need to have to be able to jump into a vehicle is to have the vehicle modified with a rigger adaptation and to be in VR.

[BlackJaw]

My reading is that the Control Rig is an extra +2 bonus when Rigging a Drone, but it isn't needed to Rig a Drone.

IE: Anyone with trodes and a sim module hooked into their commlink can rig a drone. A guy with a special plug into his middle brain can do so with a +2 bonus (which combines with the +2 for hot-vr).

BBB p. 239: Riggers may also take a Complex Action and “jump into� a drone via full-VR. In this case, the rigger essentially “becomes� the drone, perceiving through its sensors and operating it as if it were his own body.

A quick read of page 331 doesn't seem to say that the Control Rig is needed for Rigging, only that it adds a bonus, and only to vehicle skills (including gunnery), and only while jumped in with full VR.

It doesn't look like Riggers are getting the shaft at all to me.

[Adarael]

Point A: The control rig, in your brainstem, has to be able to talk to your car. SO, you need a datajack that talks to a sim module modded for hot sim... Or you need to skinlink or trode to your commlink which has said sim module. You only don't need a datajack if you're running through your commlink. Which is true of any sim experience, period.

Point B: As I mentioned, and Octopiii put more clearly, you don't need a control rig to VR-wise control your car. You only need it if you want that added intimacy.

As an inverterate fan of driving IRL, I know I would.

[Dr. Dodge]

Point A: The control rig, in your brainstem, has to be able to talk to your car. SO, you need a datajack that talks to a sim module modded for hot sim... Or you need to skinlink or trode to your commlink which has said sim module. You only don't need a datajack if you're running through your commlink. Which is true of any sim experience, period.

Point B: As I mentioned, and Octopiii put more clearly, you don't need a control rig to VR-wise control your car. You only need it if you want that added intimacy.

As an inverterate fan of driving IRL, I know I would.

I am not denying you can jump into a drone, etc. without a control rig (though upon reading the description of the rigger adaption and the rigger rules, it does seem sort of unclear to me, but i'll go along with it). What i am struggling with (this is metagame-wise) is that you can have a commlink (external) trodes (external) sim module (external) and experience a hot sim VR world with lethal biofeedback (and ostensibly totally realistic virtual reality where you "feel the code etc."), but to "feel" your car you need a piece of cyberware? It doesn't seem to mesh with me. I guess i should emphasize this is not a rules argument, just a game world observation. But it stems from my dislike of trodes in the first place. Sure you can rig without a VCR (some kind of pidgin rigger!), but that's not a true rigger in my mind (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[Octopiii]

You "feel" the car when you're jumped in via VR as well. In hot-sim, if your vehicle gets hit, you have to deal with bio-feedback. A VCR just gives you a a faster connection (by allowing you to virtually connect to your cortex or whatever).

[Chibu]

Well, I think the problem is that in 4th Edition, they turned the VCR into kind of a... Driving Smartlink. It's not a VCR anymore. The VCR was 3 Essence (Becuase you get level 2. Level 1 isn't good enough and level 3 it too much essence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It was awesome. It has style. You were one with the car... Now? You don't even need it. You can just have your mage be a rigger instead.

[Octopiii]

Mage Riggers are cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

[Chibu]

Mage Riggers are cool (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) .

Nothing's as cool as it used to be =(

[Octopiii]

Only if you're an old fogey! I find the fact that hackers don't have to spend every single penny they posses on a cyberdeck which can easily be stolen or trashed pretty darn cool.

[Chibu]

*deletes his post*

See? You were trying to make me start arguing about SR2 vs. SR4. That's not nice lol. But I'm not gonna do it!

[BlackJaw]

If you're rigged into the car (trodes or plugs) you feel like you're the car. Period.

The Control Rig allows for better control by sending direct connected wires into the part of your brain that handles movement (The part you aren't using in Hot VR anyway). This gets you a bonus on controlling the vehicle but neither the flavor text nor the mechanics next to it indicates that it is required to feel like the vehicle. That's what the Rigger Box on the vehicle is for. It provides the sensor inputs as SIM data so you have something to feel using normal VR methods.

Control rigs (in flavor text) are described not as hooking into the parts of the brain that let you feel things, but instead into the parts for controlling limbs and body functions so those can be mapped better onto the vehicle.

Game-mechanic wise Control Rigs provide an extra bonus to Riggers over and above the Hot Sim VR bonuses. In fact, Hackers didn't get their equivelent (an implant that provides a bonus to more or less just hacking but not rigging) until Augmentation with the Encephalon.

[Dr. Dodge]

If you're rigged into the car (trodes or plugs) you feel like you're the car. Period.

The Control Rig allows for better control by sending direct connected wires into the part of your brain that handles movement (The part you aren't using in Hot VR anyway). This gets you a bonus on controlling the vehicle but neither the flavor text nor the mechanics next to it indicates that it is required to feel like the vehicle. That's what the Rigger Box on the vehicle is for. It provides the sensor inputs as SIM data so you have something to feel using normal VR methods.

Control rigs (in flavor text) are described not as hooking into the parts of the brain that let you feel things, but instead into the parts for controlling limbs and body functions so those can be mapped better onto the vehicle.

Why would one part of your brain require direct wired connection but the other part doesn't? It doesnt seem odd? I just think its weird you don't need smartlink cyberware for full smartlink anymore , datajack for full hacking anymore, but for some reason the ol' control rig still has to be slapped onto your brain. It seems to me the control rig should be an addon to your commlink like the sim module (or at least have both internal and external options).

Game-mechanic wise Control Rigs provide an extra bonus to Riggers over and above the Hot Sim VR bonuses. In fact, Hackers didn't get their equivelent (an implant that provides a bonus to more or less just hacking but not rigging) until Augmentation with the Encephalon.

I'll have to check aug when i get home, but game mechanics-wise at least that helps for balancing in my mind.

[Dr. Dodge]

Well, I think the problem is that in 4th Edition, they turned the VCR into kind of a... Driving Smartlink. It's not a VCR anymore. The VCR was 3 Essence (Becuase you get level 2. Level 1 isn't good enough and level 3 it too much essence (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) ). It was awesome. It has style. You were one with the car... Now? You don't even need it. You can just have your mage be a rigger instead.

i would agree...but you dont need smartlink cyberware anymore...so why is the control rig still cyberware?

[Octopiii]

To be honest, I wish they had kept smartlinks as cyberware.

[Dr. Dodge]

To be honest, I wish they had kept smartlinks as cyberware.

me too. i like some of the changes that made "multi classing" more natural but you lose some of the distinguishing markers of different PC types. Cant please everybody though. Overall i think its a good thing (thus my argument of 'why do control rig cost me essence!').

[Malachi]

@Dr. Dodge: Don't dwell on it, just come up with a reason. Such as: the motor cortex of the brain is too densely packed, and too high-speed to be effectively stimulated via inductive signals like a Trode Net, and it requires a specialized piece of hardware in order to interface properly since it stimulates a different part of the brain than the datajack does.

[Dr. Dodge]

@Dr. Dodge: Don't tell on it, just come up with a reason. Such as: the motor cortex of the brain is too densely packed, and too high-speed to be effectively stimulated via inductive signals like a Trode Net, and it requires a specialized piece of hardware in order to interface properly since it stimulates a different part of the brain than the datajack does.

i'll get over it. I was just trying to make a smuggler-y/mage today and kind of got turned off/confused by the essence cost. Oh well i guess those mundanes get +2! jerks!

[TheOOB]

Well, a smart-link just gives you a projected bullet path considering local condidtions, a cross-heir on steroids if you will. It doesn't actually interface with your brain.

Anyways, there is a reason a VCR is cyberware. Normally, when you go VR(assuming hot sim), you are feeling completely artificial sensations, something created by a computer for you to feel. Since there is no physical component of the sensation, no physical link is necessary(though anyone would tell you an implanted sim rig gives a much better experiance, it just doesn't affect gameplay.)

On the other hand, rigging connects you to something real, something physical. There is way more going on in a vehicle then in even the most complex computer program, and to truly experience it fully, it needs a direct analog connection to your nervous system.

If, for example, there was tech that allowed you to control a person, I'd imagine there would be a MHCR(Meta-Human Control Rig).

[Mirilion]

If, for example, there was tech that allowed you to control a person, I'd imagine there would be a MHCR(Meta-Human Control Rig).

My next campaign. Thank you.

[DWC]

If, for example, there was tech that allowed you to control a person, I'd imagine there would be a MHCR(Meta-Human Control Rig).

Check out the biodrones in Augmentation. If you can rig a tiger, being able to rig a human being with a combination of move by wire and a simrig can't be that far off.

[paws2sky]

Nothing's as cool as it used to be =(

Lies. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smokin.gif)

-paws

[Dr. Dodge]

Well, a smart-link just gives you a projected bullet path considering local condidtions, a cross-heir on steroids if you will. It doesn't actually interface with your brain.

in a retconn-y sort of way, yes.

Anyways, there is a reason a VCR is cyberware. Normally, when you go VR(assuming hot sim), you are feeling completely artificial sensations, something created by a computer for you to feel. Since there is no physical component of the sensation, no physical link is necessary(though anyone would tell you an implanted sim rig gives a much better experiance, it just doesn't affect gameplay.)

On the other hand, rigging connects you to something real, something physical. There is way more going on in a vehicle then in even the most complex computer program, and to truly experience it fully, it needs a direct analog connection to your nervous system.

How does this jive with the fact that you CAN "rig" a vehicle without a control rig? I would also argue a computer (making thousands, billions, bazillions im talking out of my ass) of computations a second (especially one that can simulate/convey human emotions!!!) is much more complex than a mechanically driven car. Then again future car is probably just a computer on wheels anyhow.