Melee weapon mods., Pimp my...Knife? |
Melee weapon mods., Pimp my...Knife? |
Jun 20 2009, 02:22 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: 17-November 08 Member No.: 16,603 |
Arsenal does a good job for gun-fetishist weapon modding, but doesn't really offer many options for melee weapons. I think we should fix that!
How would you eyeball: Placing a poison reservoir into the grip of a knife? Making a weapon collapsible, as in telescoping batons and switchblades?* Putting an auto-adjusting weight on a club, so as to add damage without sacrificing balance? There are just off the top of my head, feel free to think up other melee mods and post them here. *Before someone suggests it, no, Easy Breakdown doesn't work here; it doesn't take 2-3 Complex Actions to snap out a baton. |
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Jun 20 2009, 03:43 PM
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#2
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
Placing a poison reservoir into the grip of a knife? Just use the cyberware version, but obviously it takes slots instead of capacity or essence. Maybe it takes slots equal to Capacity? Or if it lacks Capacity, it can take a number of slots equal to Essence cost rounded up to the nearest whole number (i.e. 0.1 takes 1 slot, 1.01 takes 2 slots). QUOTE Making a weapon collapsible, as in telescoping batons and switchblades?* You could still use the cost and slots for Easy Breakdown, just rule that because it's a melee weapon it snaps out with a free or simple action. Though you don't really need to spend extra for a switchblade, that's functionally the same as a plain old knife, it's just how you describe it that's different. QUOTE Putting an auto-adjusting weight on a club, so as to add damage without sacrificing balance? Dunno why you'd want this mod. SR4 doesn't have rules for weapon balance, this would provide you no bonus... Many of the mods already work fine for melee weapons, such as custom look, underbarrel weapon (gun swords!), ceramic components, chameleon coating, gecko grip, metahuman customization, personalized grip (added +1 die to use the weapon under SR3), reduced weight, propulsion system... |
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Jun 20 2009, 04:25 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 17-April 08 Member No.: 15,907 |
Easy Breakdown would actually work for doing something like the Kurgan sword. Which wolud be about as impractical in Shadowrun as it was in the movie. Doesn't stop one from trying though.
As far as "collapsible", why does that need to be a mod? What is the in game effect you are trying to achieve with it? Some sort of quick draw effect, or more concealable, or something else? More importantly, what sort of weapon would benefit from such a mod that isn't available already? Is a switchblade mono-chainsaw really useful? I guess my thing with "collapsible" is the fact that in RAW we already have the collapsible baton, collapsible staff, monowhip and the Victorinox Memory Blade, which pretty much covers both armed melee skills in the game plus one exotic one. It's unlikely a melee specialist would choose a collapsible weapon as their primary instrument (well, monowhip perhaps), rather using them as stealthy backups. If you really wanted something like a collapsible stun baton (about the only useful purpose for such a mod I can think of), just use the rules for the existing collapsible weapons (it's like -2 to concealability?), work out a cost for slots (1-2 probably), threshhold and (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nuyen.gif) with your GM, and go to it. |
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Jun 20 2009, 04:28 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 151 Joined: 17-November 08 Member No.: 16,603 |
Good calls all around. On auto-adjusting weights, I'm thinking that strapping one to a melee weapon would grant extra DV (due to the extra weight at the moment of impact) without the dice pool penalties that should logically result from strapping a large weight to an otherwise well-balanced weapon. That one's a reach.
Not that melee needs more damage, mind you - and there are always martial arts. Say, speaking of which, how would you rate a +1 reach. -1 concealability mod? I'm thinking "as Barrel Extension, applied to a sword." |
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Jun 20 2009, 09:02 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 704 Joined: 20-November 06 From: The seemingly unknown area of land between Seattle and Idaho. Member No.: 9,910 |
My friend made an adept staff specialist for a game a while back. I whipped up stats for a telescoping shockstaff for him. As for a telescoping sword, how about the one Sulu had in the recent Star Trek flick?
Would you count a crowbar as a club? Stat-wise I mean. How would y'all stat the Dragon's Tooth from Deus Ex? It is a sword that has a blade that is dynamically reforged and sharpened by nanites while activated. The resulting blade is extremely hard and has an almost microscopic cutting edge. |
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Jun 20 2009, 09:17 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
Good calls all around. On auto-adjusting weights, I'm thinking that strapping one to a melee weapon would grant extra DV (due to the extra weight at the moment of impact) without the dice pool penalties that should logically result from strapping a large weight to an otherwise well-balanced weapon. That one's a reach. Not that melee needs more damage, mind you - and there are always martial arts. No, adding more weight to a club doesn't get you a more powerful club, not to the point of adding +1 DV, not unless you add enough weight that it's no longer useful. The difference between light pistols and assault rifles is only DV2 after all, though people will tell you that these days, an AR punches right through a kevlar vest and a light pistol never will. +1 DV isn't just a little bonus, it's coming close to changing the class of weapon. Adding DV to melee weapons is the mistake that SR3 made with dikote. The question to ask was not, "Hey, should I dikote my *insert any melee weapon*?" The question was "Duh, me dikote, or iz me stupid?" Mods shouldn't add more damage, that makes them no-brainers, and no-brainers are bad. QUOTE Say, speaking of which, how would you rate a +1 reach. -1 concealability mod? I'm thinking "as Barrel Extension, applied to a sword." The thing is, +1 Reach is actually +1 meter in length. If you want a +1 reach katana, you get a nodachi, if you want a +1 reach sword you get a claymore, if you want a +1 reach club you get a staff. Doubling the length of the weapon makes it into a really bad weapon, it needs to be constructed to bear the added weight and be balanced while being longer. You can't just add blade and say "when" when you feel like it's long enough... And having a claymore, nodachi, or staff that's 3 meters long? Nuh-uh, not happening. And barrel reduction is much the same. If it's a claymore with -1 reach, it's a crappy broken claymore. Better to get a sword. If it's a sword with a -1 reach, it's a broken sword, better to get a knife. And if it's a knife with -1 reach, then it's just a tiny sliver of steel that can't hurt anyone... |
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Jun 20 2009, 10:04 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 228 Joined: 27-July 08 Member No.: 16,168 |
Making a melee weapon more effective without changing the principle of how a weapon works has only limited options. I would guess one can modify any bladed weapon to monofilament blade, giving a -1AP to it. Vibro blades already exist and I think they are quite the peak of blade tech without having some kind of force field around the blade. Other than that, there's not really any other way to "improve" a blade without changing it's size. For a blunt weapon, one can add some spikes, possibly giving the same -1AP but adding only weight does make both bladed and blunt weapons much more unwieldy. One could add to a hammer some kind of explosive to propel a spike or such on impact. There are dozens of options like that, but they all change how the weapon actually works and game mechanic-wise, I would ask for a exotic weapon skill for such fancy items. And using such a device is really distinct style...
The idea of the auto adjusting weight does sound bit odd to me. If your weapon all of the sudden changes it's balance so radically that it will deal more damage, would it not then rip off from your hand? |
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Jun 20 2009, 10:29 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 14-August 08 Member No.: 16,237 |
as far as the adjusting weight for me damage. there is a weapon in fantasy called the mercurial sword. a sword thats semi hollow and has mercury in the handle. when you swing the sword the mercury travels to the end of the sword increasing its momentum. in dnd its an exotic weapon doing slightly more damage than a sword of the same class. if you are looking for something realistic you might not find it but this comes close.
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Jun 20 2009, 11:27 PM
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#9
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Dumorimasoddaa Group: Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,830 |
That mercurial sword idea isn't completely fictitious IIRC there are a few combat blades that use this idea not that it dose much.
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Jun 21 2009, 05:43 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
The problem is that +1 DV isn't just a bonus, it's a whole different class of weapon. You just can't represent minor bonuses like being heavier with an entire +1DV. They would make the weapon a little better in real life, but not better enough to merit a whole +1DV in Shadowrun. And again, no-brainers are bad. A mod that simply adds +1DV to anything you want is just silly. Why wouldn't every single weapon have it? SR4 has done a good job with weapon mods by making few if any that are true no-brainers, it would be going backwards to start adding them via house rule.
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Jun 21 2009, 06:17 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 14-August 08 Member No.: 16,237 |
exotic weapon
mercurial sword reach 1 damage (str/2)+4 cost 1000 exotic weapon mercurial great sword reach 2 damage(str/2)+5p ap-1 cost 1800 have fun crazy swordsmen. lulz for all. |
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Jun 21 2009, 08:32 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 20-June 09 Member No.: 17,304 |
Heh, dunno if this qualifies to what the OP was asking for...
But I got a little worried on the 1835742(F) uber-illegal rating of a mono-whip so came up with a thought for it. Customize it to ceramic/plasic and hide it inside the butt-end of a extendable baton. Not sure how much this would cost, and I'm sure others have thought of it... but there it is, anyway. |
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Jun 21 2009, 04:10 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 582 Joined: 13-April 08 Member No.: 15,881 |
NO melee weapon should be used without the Personalized Grip mod. Its cheap and gives you +1 dice pool modifier on melee combat rolls to use it. There is simply no reason not to use it.
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Jun 21 2009, 04:19 PM
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#14
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
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Jun 21 2009, 04:53 PM
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#15
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Dumorimasoddaa Group: Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,830 |
NO melee weapon should be used without the Personalized Grip mod. Its cheap and gives you +1 dice pool modifier on melee combat rolls to use it. There is simply no reason not to use it. Negative IIRC it gives plus 1DV (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) |
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Jun 21 2009, 04:57 PM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,653 Joined: 22-January 08 Member No.: 15,430 |
Negative IIRC it gives plus 1DV (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) You don't RC. "...+1 dice pool modifier on melee combat rolls in the case of a melee weapon." Arsenal p.152 Where do you get this... I can't find it in SR4, but that's what they said in SR3, and it makes sense. Knives are less than a meter long and have 0 reach. Swords are about 1 meter, certainly less than 2 meters, and they have 1 reach. Greatswords are about 2 meters, and definitely less than 3 meters long, and they have 2 reach. You'll notice that there is not one single Reach 3 weapon in any of the books. Why? Because a reach 3 weapon would be so unwieldy as to be a joke in combat. You could get, like, a pike that was long enough, but it would need special rules in combat, because there's just no way you can fight with a 9 foot long weapon in a confined space, and it's useless if the enemy gets inside your range. |
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Jun 21 2009, 05:22 PM
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#17
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Dumorimasoddaa Group: Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,830 |
Humm IDK where that idea came from obscure house rule I guess.
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Jun 21 2009, 06:57 PM
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#18
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,803 Joined: 3-February 08 From: Finland Member No.: 15,628 |
I can't find it in SR4, but that's what they said in SR3, and it makes sense. Knives are less than a meter long and have 0 reach. Swords are about 1 meter, certainly less than 2 meters, and they have 1 reach. Greatswords are about 2 meters, and definitely less than 3 meters long, and they have 2 reach. You'll notice that there is not one single Reach 3 weapon in any of the books. Why? Because a reach 3 weapon would be so unwieldy as to be a joke in combat. You could get, like, a pike that was long enough, but it would need special rules in combat, because there's just no way you can fight with a 9 foot long weapon in a confined space, and it's useless if the enemy gets inside your range. But a claymore is 1,5 meters long and it has reach 2. |
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Jun 21 2009, 07:04 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 228 Joined: 27-July 08 Member No.: 16,168 |
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Jun 21 2009, 08:56 PM
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#20
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Dumorimasoddaa Group: Members Posts: 2,687 Joined: 30-March 08 Member No.: 15,830 |
however it dose brake and you can get a +5 reach modifier if you twink enough.
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Jun 21 2009, 09:02 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 31 Joined: 27-March 09 Member No.: 17,027 |
1. Look into having a compressed air resorvoir, http://www.waspknife.com/ , always really nasty.
2. Generally, I agree, if ou want to use something that isn't a bullet and doesn't explode, go with poison. 3. Or, when all else fails, put a laser sight on it, laser sights make every attack better, see! http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20090309 |
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Jun 21 2009, 09:26 PM
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#22
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Old Man Jones Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,415 Joined: 26-February 02 From: New York Member No.: 1,699 |
That mercurial sword idea isn't completely fictitious IIRC there are a few combat blades that use this idea not that it dose much. Don't you occasionally see folks in baseball cheating with a sliding weight in the bat? I know I've seen a toy water filled bat. All the water goes to the far end during a swing. Whether this actually lets you hit harder I dunno. -karma |
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Jun 22 2009, 03:03 AM
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#23
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Neophyte Runner Group: Validating Posts: 2,283 Joined: 12-October 07 Member No.: 13,662 |
Electrifying a bladed weapon w/ an insulated grip. Quite a jolt for the unsuspecting. (incompatible w/ ceramic construction to defeat MADs)
Really, there's very few mods in arsenal that go on melee (personalized grip, ceramic construction, maybe a few others are all I can think of). But really, most of them are either A. materials upgrades (unobtanium). Or only turn a weapon into a slightly different related weapon (club vs. tonfa, vs. nunchuk vs. minbari fighting pike. |
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Jun 22 2009, 03:52 AM
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#24
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Target Group: Members Posts: 66 Joined: 15-January 09 Member No.: 16,768 |
Don't you occasionally see folks in baseball cheating with a sliding weight in the bat? I know I've seen a toy water filled bat. All the water goes to the far end during a swing. Whether this actually lets you hit harder I dunno. The traditional way to cheat in professional baseball is to drill out the head of the bat, and replace the wood with cork. The lighter bat can be swung faster, increasing the distance on hits. The mercurial sword thing is weird; it would require using the sword as a club, with big, looping swings that would crash into the person's body and possibly stick there. From my experience, most sword arts are about quick cuts and stabs, instead of cutting opponents in half. Of course, this is a game where a troll can use a dwarf as a human shield and people can make heads explode with magic. |
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Jun 22 2009, 11:27 AM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 228 Joined: 27-July 08 Member No.: 16,168 |
The traditional way to cheat in professional baseball is to drill out the head of the bat, and replace the wood with cork. The lighter bat can be swung faster, increasing the distance on hits. I think that was in Mythbusters... busted. It doesn't really help as the cork is too soft so you won't get a good impact to the ball. Even if you can swing something faster but with softer, the impact isn't as strong... or something like that if I remember correctly. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) For blunt objects to deliver most impact you need: weight and solid/rigid item to hit with. Hence a feather is probably the crappiest club while a solid steel baton would be much better ;) |
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