Hacking - Spoof Command, Limits on command? Options

[Backgammon]

So for some reason I didn't really pay attention to the rules for Spoofing commands until I was casually rereading the hacking seciton in SR4A.

It seems to me that Spoofing commands is pretty damn powerful. It's faster than a full out commlink invasion and can pretty much do the same thing you'd want to do once inside someone's commlink anyway.

Take the example in SR4A - eject someone's clip. Damn, that's powerful. What if you Spoof Command - turn off commlink? You can shut down the enemy with just 1 action. Turn off drone... Could you even go so far as to send a Get File command - have a commlink spit out a piece of information you're looking for?

[Cheops]

I wouldn't allow the Get File command since that is more appropriately an Edit command (despite real world differences between opening a file and FTPing one).

Yeah the other stuff is all cool. It is part of the authors trying to make it possible for the Hacker to take part in runs instead of sitting in the van all day. I don't recall how the master-slave rules work so that could limit things, and also you have to remember that the hacker still has to find (perceive) the device's matrix signature and he may have to decrypt the signal. Both of these take an annoying amount of time in actual combat.

[DuctShuiTengu]

For a lot of situations, yes, spoof is very powerful. That said, it does suffer a few very big limits on what you can use it to do.

1: You're getting one thing at a time. Hacking into a device lets you send it orders until someone or something manages to kick you out. Spoofing a command to the device lets you send it one order; to send more, you need to spoof it again.
2: The device you're spoofing a command to needs to be capable of performing the action you've commanded it to do (though this is also true with devices you've hacked into).
3: The device needs to be set up to accept the order you've given via wireless commands (if you wanted to, you could, for instance, program your Stormcloud to hover over the facility you're hitting for N period of time, broadcasting what it detects to you, but not accept new orders until that time period ended). Hacking into the device can bypass this (someone who's gotten into the drone in the above example could simply change its existing orders to spy somewhere else, for a different length of time, and/or broadcast what it sees to someone else - or have it pass along false information).
4: You need to be able to get an access ID that the device will accept that command from.

So, spoofing a command to eject someone's clip? Yes, but they can just stick another one in (or pick up the same one and put it back in). Potentially awesome in its utility if you and a couple of your teammates are facing down a single horrifyingly powerful opponent (since with good rolls, you can keep him from being able to get a shot off), but against your average corp-sec team, you've just cost a single guard a single simple action.

Shut down commlink? Maybe. Do they have their commlink set up so that it will accept wireless commands to shut down? If they do, you can do this. If not, you can't. Of course, you can always crash their commlink or hack in and give it a command to shut down - admittedly while logged into it, so that could be a small issue.

Turn off Drone? Probably - though again, the drone might be configured to not allow it. And while, as with the eject clip option, there's nothing preventing them from undoing it, rebooting takes a bit more time than simply reloading.

Spoofing a command to have it send you a file? Partly. I'd accept it as a given that most nodes are set up so that they'll accept requests from authorized users to send a copy of a file it has to that user - at which point you can try to intercept the transmission to get a copy for yourself as wel, but have to hope that the user who's ID you faked doesn't notice the file coming their way and do something about it. Being set up to accept requests from an authorized user to send a copy of a file it has to someone else seems a bit less likely to find on secure nodes - not to mention that if you want the file sent to you, you need to tell it where to send it, aka telling it where to find you (better change that address before the corp who's data you just stole can track it back to you).

[CodeBreaker]

And remember that Spoof Command cannot be used on Commlinks/Nexi, only devices that are peripheral or have a Pilot rating. Plus any good Hacker will be doing as much as possible to hide their Access ID, along with the encrypting as much of their traffic as possible. Also most useful things you can do with Spoof would probably need Admin Rights, so you get that nasty modifier. I dont know about you but if I had a Wireless Gun I would make sure I needed to be an admin to make it eject its clip.

Its true Spoof is a powerful tool, but it is also situational (I use it mostly for getting rid of those damn Drones) and a fair amount of the time I find its easier to just force my way through the enemy firewall.

[shuya]

And remember that Spoof Command cannot be used on Commlinks/Nexi, only devices that are peripheral or have a Pilot rating.

any "electronic device" can be spoofed, per "Advanced Spoofing," Unwired, p.98.
the description of the Juhseung Saja IC also seems to support this:

Once the hacker is rendered unconscious, the IC Tracks her signal back to the source and Spoofs the hacker’s node to transfer the Juhseung Saja to itself.

[Larme]

Spoofing has pretty limited combat utility. Anyone with more than a single peanut rattling around in their skill runs their PAN in hidden mode in combat situations. This requires a Detect Hidden Node until you find it. Then you need an Analyze to get the access ID. Then you need to detect the nodes for their peripheral devices, which may be impossible because they're Signal 0. Unless you can find the node, you can't Spoof it. To do anything to a gun or a piece of cyberware would require getting very close to the target, running Detect Hidden Node, and then taking a Spoof Command action. That's a lot of time to spend just to do something mildly annoying like eject clip, change linked device mode, turn on safety, or whatever. They can still take a simple to put the clip back in, and shoot you with a simple. Or they can shoot you while you're ARing it up trying to find all their nodes and spoof their stuff.

And for drones you can give a command, but a rigger in charge of the drone can just countermand it. The best thing for drones is to hack them, change the slave to your own commlink, and jump in, because a jumped in pilot overrides all other commands.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Spoofing has pretty limited combat utility. Anyone with more than a single peanut rattling around in their skill runs their PAN in hidden mode in combat situations. This requires a Detect Hidden Node until you find it. Then you need an Analyze to get the access ID. Then you need to detect the nodes for their peripheral devices, which may be impossible because they're Signal 0. Unless you can find the node, you can't Spoof it. To do anything to a gun or a piece of cyberware would require getting very close to the target, running Detect Hidden Node, and then taking a Spoof Command action. That's a lot of time to spend just to do something mildly annoying like eject clip, change linked device mode, turn on safety, or whatever. They can still take a simple to put the clip back in, and shoot you with a simple. Or they can shoot you while you're ARing it up trying to find all their nodes and spoof their stuff.

And for drones you can give a command, but a rigger in charge of the drone can just countermand it. The best thing for drones is to hack them, change the slave to your own commlink, and jump in, because a jumped in pilot overrides all other commands.

Well the benefit of this kind of attack is it can be done while hiding behind full cover. The SR4A example is a fairly good one. The big dude is pinning your guys down under heavy automatic fire. No one wants to peak there heads up or try to get a shot off. Even is the PAN is hidden it just adds a pass or two of you hiding. So the decker looks for the hidden node, analyzes it for the supper leet password of Ilovekittycats09, and then spoofs the gun so your Sam can pop out and FINISH HIM.

[DuctShuiTengu]

Well the benefit of this kind of attack is it can be done while hiding behind full cover. The SR4A example is a fairly good one. The big dude is pinning your guys down under heavy automatic fire. No one wants to peak there heads up or try to get a shot off. Even is the PAN is hidden it just adds a pass or two of you hiding. So the decker looks for the hidden node, analyzes it for the supper leet password of Ilovekittycats09, and then spoofs the gun so your Sam can pop out and FINISH HIM.

It can be useful in that kind of situation, but then, grenades or any indirect fire weapon - or ones where you just need it in the right general area - can also work to let you return fire while remaining hidden. And you still have a limited amount of time where you can hide there safely (which may or may not be enough time to spoof the guy's gun, depending on your skill and how good a job they've done of protecting against such things), assuming the security team is doing this intelligently. After all, the goal of suppressive fire is to keep you pinned down until their teammates can do something about you, not until they run out of bullets.

[Draco18s]

Spoofing has pretty limited combat utility. Anyone with more than a single peanut rattling around in their skill runs their PAN in hidden mode in combat situations. This requires a Detect Hidden Node until you find it. Then you need an Analyze to get the access ID. Then you need to detect the nodes for their peripheral devices, which may be impossible because they're Signal 0.

Tada! There are more effective things you could be doing in combat than hacking.

[CodeBreaker]

That is untill you find someone who happens to have a DNI with a Simsense Module attached to their Commlink. If you can Spoof commands to a Commlink you can just send a nice and quick "Switch to VR Mode" set of commands and have that person slump to the ground. And while you do that you have a few Agents/Sprites sitting about on standby in the guys Node waiting for his persona to appear so they can smash into that person with Blackhammer and knock him out.

But yeah, I find its much easier to either simply shoot at the person with my gun, dont get caught out in combat without a friendly Street Sam nearby or just hard-hack my way into the guys stuff.

[Larme]

That is untill you find someone who happens to have a DNI with a Simsense Module attached to their Commlink. If you can Spoof commands to a Commlink you can just send a nice and quick "Switch to VR Mode" set of commands and have that person slump to the ground. And while you do that you have a few Agents/Sprites sitting about on standby in the guys Node waiting for his persona to appear so they can smash into that person with Blackhammer and knock him out.

But yeah, I find its much easier to either simply shoot at the person with my gun, dont get caught out in combat without a friendly Street Sam nearby or just hard-hack my way into the guys stuff.

Er, you already have IC in his node? That means you've already hacked him and loaded them on. That means you're no longer conducting a Spoof, you can just flick the switch from the inside. The best thing to do is put someone into VR and then shoot them. Or just shoot them in the first place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Honestly, hackers are no good for killing people in a face to face situation, or even seriously interfering with combat. If you want to fight, be a combat hacker. SR4 hacking just isn't fast enough to do GiTS style mind-raping via the matrix, it takes action after action to mess someone up, while in regular combat just one simple can dispatch a whole crowd of people. People aren't going to leave the idea alone because it's cool, especially for computer nerds, but it's just an impractical waste in SR4.

[CodeBreaker]

To be honest it works better when you have time to set it up, such as when you know that the guy your extracting happens to be being guarded by 3 fellows who are all Simsense enabled and you cannot afford to make any sound. Or when I dont happen to have access to a weapon (because I just got nabbed by those smarmy ass LoneStar chaps and they dont know I am a Technomancer for example).

In actual combat I leave it to my friends who are designed to bring down the badguys while I cover our asses and make sure we dont find ourselves locked in a room with no way out. However that doesnt mean that I cannot contribute with some mind rapage, but it is very situational. Helps that I can do it from half way across the planet though.

[Malachi]

any "electronic device" can be spoofed, per "Advanced Spoofing," Unwired, p.98.

*reads page 98 of Unwired*

Yeah it seems to imply that..... but SR4A states it pretty explicitly:

The target of a spoof attempt must either have a Pilot rating or be
a peripheral device.

If Unwired comes up for another round of errata, that section might be tweaked.

[Jaid]

Er, you already have IC in his node? That means you've already hacked him and loaded them on. That means you're no longer conducting a Spoof, you can just flick the switch from the inside. The best thing to do is put someone into VR and then shoot them. Or just shoot them in the first place (IMG:style_emoticons/default/nyahnyah.gif) Honestly, hackers are no good for killing people in a face to face situation, or even seriously interfering with combat. If you want to fight, be a combat hacker. SR4 hacking just isn't fast enough to do GiTS style mind-raping via the matrix, it takes action after action to mess someone up, while in regular combat just one simple can dispatch a whole crowd of people. People aren't going to leave the idea alone because it's cool, especially for computer nerds, but it's just an impractical waste in SR4.

step 1) have an agent mail several databombed files (rating 6 biofeedback bombs with psychotropic effects, natch) to the target
step 2) spoof command to go to VR
step 3) have agent spoof command to view files
step 4) laugh maniacally.
step 5) profit

[CodeBreaker]

Oooo, thats even better. I was trying to work a way to use Worms/Viruses and things. Been trying to think up a way that destroys both the Commlinks Firewall (Easy to do) and response. Get the Response low enough and System tanks. Get both of them low enough (No Firewall/1 or so System), send in the Machine Sprite and have it use Gremlins. What do you know, suddenly getting 4 Net Hits isnt that much of a problem and you can critical glitch any electronic device at will.

[Larme]

Er, you already have IC in his node?

Self-quote, because it made me think of something: I demand an appropriate lolcat with the caption "Im in ur node, loading up IC"!

[Aaron]

Tada! There are more effective things you could be doing in combat than hacking.

There isn't if you're doing it right. Hacking is about being prepared, hacking in combat more so. If I, the team's Matrix specialist, am aware that there's going to be a fight, I can locate PANs ahead of time and get access IDs.

Of course, if you're caught with your proverbial pants down, you're in trouble. On the other hand, that's also true for the street samurai with her weapons stowed and safe (i.e. unprepared), so yeah.

[Jaid]

There isn't if you're doing it right. Hacking is about being prepared, hacking in combat more so. If I, the team's Matrix specialist, am aware that there's going to be a fight, I can locate PANs ahead of time and get access IDs.

Of course, if you're caught with your proverbial pants down, you're in trouble. On the other hand, that's also true for the street samurai with her weapons stowed and safe (i.e. unprepared), so yeah.

it is much easier to draw your weapons quickly (particularly with stuff like hidden gun slides) and to have weapons that are never put away (such as bone lacing) than it is to have the target's node always hacked or hacked in one turn.

besides, if you have time ahead of time, you're probably better off bringing the environment against your foes, imo.

[Draco18s]

besides, if you have time ahead of time, you're probably better off bringing the environment against your foes, imo.

Also my opinion, such as turning the building's intruder deterrent system on the guards including that popout minigun turret. Hacking cyberware/equipment is one of the least effective things you can do in combat, even when you have forwarning and can insta-hack into their commlink.